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GHD1959
04-29-2005, 03:15 PM
Has anyone used or heard of the Migun thermal massage bed? Sounds wonderful..http://www.migunworld.com/

chrisma1
11-13-2005, 01:46 PM
Hello. Thanks for posting about the Migun thermal massage bed. Yes, the Migun bed is amazing. For some users, spine curvatures can be slowly corrected over time... 10, 20, 30 massages.

There is a new bed available in the US now called the Nuga Best NM-5000. Nuga's chairman is a former Migun manager and the former CEO of Ceragem. The Nuga NM-5000 has a wider, more supporting internal 7-jade roller heated projector. What sets the Nuga apart from the Migun and Ceragem is the fact that the internal projector articulates/flexes providing much more less invasive therapy. The NM-5000 can also be inclined at either end of the bed at 10, 20, or 30 degrees.

Those with curvatures will likely be in paid after the first several hands-free massages, but this should be anticipated... no pain, no gain.

Karen Ocker
11-13-2005, 03:38 PM
Hello. Thanks for posting about the Migun thermal massage bed. Yes, the Migun bed is amazing. For some users, spine curvatures can be slowly corrected over time... 10, 20, 30 massages.

Those with curvatures will likely be in paid after the first several hands-free massages, but this should be anticipated... no pain, no gain.

What??? Is there a money back guarantee to your claim "spine curvatures can be slowly corrected over time"? I checked their website:

...The intended use of the product is to provide muscle relaxation therapy by delivering heat and soothing massage. The infrared lamps included in the product provide topical heating for temporary relief of minor muscle and joint pain and stiffness, temporary relief of minor joint pain associated with arthritis, temporary increase in local circulation where applied, and relaxation of muscles. Unless prescribed or directed under the supervision of the user's physician, the product is not intended to be used for medical treatment of any disease or condition....

Please do not advertise expensive devices, giving false info/hope to our members needing answers for scoliosis.
Karen

LindaRacine
11-13-2005, 06:17 PM
I hope that you're all smarter than to fall for this drek. Massage will not reduce structural scoliosis curves.

--Linda

sweetness514
11-14-2005, 02:28 PM
I hope so too, I know some people will get false hopes. I have always thought that scoliosis can never reverse degrees, but I don't know for sure. I do know it's not a bed that will do it though :rolleyes:

SandyC
11-14-2005, 04:03 PM
I just hate :mad: :mad: :mad: scam artists, especially those that pray on people that have medical needs errrrrrrrrr :mad:

helperthom
04-25-2006, 09:34 PM
while it is nice to see people trying new therapies to resolve their difficulties re scoliosis, the nuga does not have the required fda 510k clearance to even import the product let alone offer the bed for sale. simply stating that the bed induces relaxation or increases blood circulation puts it in the medical device arena and the 510k is then mandatory. ceragem and migun both have the 510k as required by LAW. ceragem follows (approximately), the natural curvature of the spine, relaxing muscles with penetrating radiant infrared heat provided by rolling jade rollers (patented). migun uses a similar process but with much less jade by using jade probes (patented), which are indeed painful; ceragem alone follows (approximately) the four bladder meridians of the back (simultaneously), with its patented roller system, migun covers two meridians and nuga has three surfaces per roller for whatever reason is beyond me and no patent. FOR CHRISMA1: the chairman of nuga was NEVER the CEO of ceragem, he was an EMPLOYEE. don't believe all you hear.

katblack
04-26-2006, 07:29 PM
I just want to say that it's really a shame that scam posts and spammers posts, cannot be deleted by a moderator.
I think of all the people that might try some of these things and my heart sinks. I fear for people being scammed and taken in by this kind of stuff.

Maybe the site admin can find a way to give Linda the ability to delete the obvious scams and band them. It does no one any good to read this dribble.

sportsdoc
04-29-2006, 12:44 AM
I own couple of units of migun units..
I must say that it has very narrow range of therapeutic value if at all..
I have several patients who have walked into my office because they were hurt by this thing..
There are uses for it...but very narrow ranged and I feel used inapproriately, it could cause injury...
Several of my disc herniation patients were taken in by the salesman's pitch that it will cure just about everything under the sun if you really pay attention to their claim...by the time they got to my clinic, the problem was to the point where physical medicine was of little use and had to be referred to ortho surgeon..

I mainly use it for those who have chronic spinal conditions to break up some adhesions...but when I say narrow, I mean very narrow..I haven't used the unit for last 6 months..

If anyone really wants to buy one, you can take mine for half the new one's price...it's practically new..lol...

or save your money and use 2 extra grand you just saved on a vacation...relaxation will do you good...

helperthom
05-02-2006, 07:12 PM
I appreciate the new comments. I began an excruciating visit on a Ceragem bed with my wife b/c of her scoliosis; I thought the bed would kill me. My doctor said I was suffering from muscle spasm (before the bed use), but I wanted to know what triggered the spasm. I paid another doc to order the MRI. It revealed bulging disks at L2-3; L3-4; herniated disk at L5-S1 and spinal stenosis at T12-L5. What a wreck! Several months later when I could no longer tolerate the pain of rollers, I decided to use the heat-only mode. After several hours in the prone position at 131 degrees F, shall I say that my pain dissolved? After three years of daily use with rollers: no more back pain, no sciatic nerve pain, no drop foot, no numb toes, no vicaden (hydrocodone), no flexoril, no motrin, no naproxen. Anyone that tries to sell something without the user first finding a benefit is unscrupulus.

sportsdoc
05-02-2006, 11:29 PM
ceragem and migun are idential units with some cosmetic difference..
ceragem sales rep will tell you they have the patented length which covers the entire spine without using double rollers...
I don't see why that would be superior..but yup...that's their line...
herniated discs often resolve itself without any treatment..once again..it's just anecdotal evidence..

what i find intriguing is that you were prone..which would have had no effect on your lumbar whatsoever...you probably got a very soothing heat therapy on your abs...absolutely no correlation to resorption of your back pain symptoms..

helperthom
05-09-2006, 05:18 PM
Dear Sportsdoc: I am appalled at your statement that these two beds are "identical" and only cosmetically different. That statement is prima facie false. Please read:
Ceragem uses four jade rollers while Migun uses four small jade probes mounted on two projectors to massage the torso; Ceragem rollers follow (approximately), the five Oriental medicine meridians of the back (four bladder meridians have eight pressure points caused by the weight of the user's body on the jade rollers and the center spinal meridian gets heat only, while Migun follows two meridians with four pressure points each and the center meridian gets heat only; Ceragem uses three epoxy carbon panels with adjustable heat (two under the torso and one under the calf muscles of the legs), while Migun has none; Ceragem has a three ball projector for small places, Migun does not; Ceragem focuses the massage to follow (approximately), the natural curvature of the spine beginning at the base of the spine with larger vertebra, then slowly upwards to the smaller cervical vertebra, while Migun begins at the neck and mid back area going down and then back up. I personally disdain this process because of its disruptive feel and the device does not feel "complete" in that the movement is short and disruptive, while the Ceragem goes from the bottom non-stop to the base of the skull which I find beneficial. The movements of the Ceragem also are more comprehensive in that there are eight points of pressure and twelve movements, each for two minutes each. In your other reply to my experience you stated that since I was prone on the Ceragem bed, it would have no effect on that area.
Again I couldn't differ with you more, but in view of your statement that these beds are identical, well! The sciatic nerve is just one of the many sacral and lumbar nerves called cauda equina (or horse tail) that exit the spine and run down the rump, through the leg down to the toes. If the nucleus pulposis of the disc herniates and touches a nerve in this area, pain is the result. Drugs do little if anything to alleviate this type of pain and as you say (and I agree), the pain usually subsides on its own, which I have also experienced. Do not forget that the Ceragem rollers begin under the rump and follow the lumbar curvature in two phases, the first is a 'stretching' phase, the second, the rollers 'sit' for two minute intervals pushing radiant infrared heat deep into the musculature structure. However in this instance my physical condition was such that I could only walk for about ten feet and then sit and rest, dropfoot, tibial muscle atrophy, excruciating leg, buttock, and low back pain, and tingling numbness in my tibia as well as the big toe; in addition I was experiencing bladder and sexual organ disfunction. Three hours later I was walking, all pain was gone, and I was "healed". This was three years ago and I continue (thank you Lord), to be pain free and symptom free, although my bid toe on occasion tingles slightly. I am merely relating my experience, whether you believe it is moot to me. I was seen by numerous doctors who were unable to help me. I mean, what can an MD actually "do" besides prescribe medicine, give an injection, or refer me for surgery, or physical therapy? Some people may think this is a lot, but just as in the case of scoliosis, a sufferer's choice is very limited. My wife also was told after months of physical therapy and increasing twisting of the torso that she would have to undergo surgery to (attempt) to correct the process. We are both eternally grateful she was able to escape it, as was I. The key I believe is in trying therapy which has some medical basis, and try it consistently; ask, is there another way to use this therapy, can it be altered for my condition? If nothing works, at least you tried. Thx for your time.

sportsdoc
05-09-2006, 11:19 PM
Dear Sportsdoc: I am appalled at your statement that these two beds are "identical" and only cosmetically different. That statement is prima facie false. Please read:
Ceragem uses four jade rollers while Migun uses four small jade probes mounted on two projectors to massage the torso; Ceragem rollers follow (approximately), the five Oriental medicine meridians of the back (four bladder meridians have eight pressure points caused by the weight of the user's body on the jade rollers and the center spinal meridian gets heat only, while Migun follows two meridians with four pressure points each and the center meridian gets heat only; Ceragem uses three epoxy carbon panels with adjustable heat (two under the torso and one under the calf muscles of the legs), while Migun has none; Ceragem has a three ball projector for small places, Migun does not; Ceragem focuses the massage to follow (approximately), the natural curvature of the spine beginning at the base of the spine with larger vertebra, then slowly upwards to the smaller cervical vertebra, while Migun begins at the neck and mid back area going down and then back up. I personally disdain this process because of its disruptive feel and the device does not feel "complete" in that the movement is short and disruptive, while the Ceragem goes from the bottom non-stop to the base of the skull which I find beneficial. The movements of the Ceragem also are more comprehensive in that there are eight points of pressure and twelve movements, each for two minutes each. In your other reply to my experience you stated that since I was prone on the Ceragem bed, it would have no effect on that area.
Again I couldn't differ with you more, but in view of your statement that these beds are identical, well! The sciatic nerve is just one of the many sacral and lumbar nerves called cauda equina (or horse tail) that exit the spine and run down the rump, through the leg down to the toes. If the nucleus pulposis of the disc herniates and touches a nerve in this area, pain is the result. Drugs do little if anything to alleviate this type of pain and as you say (and I agree), the pain usually subsides on its own, which I have also experienced. Do not forget that the Ceragem rollers begin under the rump and follow the lumbar curvature in two phases, the first is a 'stretching' phase, the second, the rollers 'sit' for two minute intervals pushing radiant infrared heat deep into the musculature structure. However in this instance my physical condition was such that I could only walk for about ten feet and then sit and rest, dropfoot, tibial muscle atrophy, excruciating leg, buttock, and low back pain, and tingling numbness in my tibia as well as the big toe; in addition I was experiencing bladder and sexual organ disfunction. Three hours later I was walking, all pain was gone, and I was "healed". This was three years ago and I continue (thank you Lord), to be pain free and symptom free, although my bid toe on occasion tingles slightly. I am merely relating my experience, whether you believe it is moot to me. I was seen by numerous doctors who were unable to help me. I mean, what can an MD actually "do" besides prescribe medicine, give an injection, or refer me for surgery, or physical therapy? Some people may think this is a lot, but just as in the case of scoliosis, a sufferer's choice is very limited. My wife also was told after months of physical therapy and increasing twisting of the torso that she would have to undergo surgery to (attempt) to correct the process. We are both eternally grateful she was able to escape it, as was I. The key I believe is in trying therapy which has some medical basis, and try it consistently; ask, is there another way to use this therapy, can it be altered for my condition? If nothing works, at least you tried. Thx for your time.

lol...think what you want...3 jade or 4 jade...it's hot rocks going up and down your paraspinal regions...How about this...you send me ceragem's claims for cure of any disease...even 1..and I'd like to send it over to FDA...

you know I should contact FDA regarding both ceragem and migun for their marketing practice...it'll be on my to do list...

helperthom
05-11-2006, 02:35 PM
There is really nothing to lol about. As fas as Ceragem and Migun go, they both have FDA 510k clearance for specific claims and only Ceragem strictly adheres to the limited clearance the FDA allows; I cannot say the same for Migun because I have read some way-out things in their literature and they advertise hokey medical trials (what protocol?), conducted in China, Korea, and at UC Irvine, which I think FDA rules strictly prohibit. My whole premise for writing was to dispel false data re: Nuga beds. If you want to contact the FDA you could follow my lead and complain about them. They have no FDA 510 k to say anything or even import the beds, they have had Import Alerts issued against them to stop importing beds, but it hasn't stopped them, the FDA is not hot to do anything about them and they claim to "purify the blood", "stimulate cell production", and "enhance metabolism", for which I have seen no data; now they have an electromagnetic abdominal belt to help users lose weight (sure!!!). In addition they openly state that their beds perform 'acupressure' which is patently impossible and absurd given the fixed positions of acupressure and the divergence of physiques among people. I wholeheartedly agree that companies making false medical claims should be held to prove so. My experience was related solely as my experience in response to other statements, it was not my intent to irritate you or castigate modern medical practices (which you yourself must admit have limited success ((outside of surgical prevention)), in treating back problems). When my physician suggested I see a surgeon (I did), my key question to both was what are the chances I would have the pain post-surgery that I had pre-surgery. The response was: "about a 30% chance"; I said: no thank you. I was polite, I just declined, and as I have already related, thank God, I am pain free. No one at Ceragem told me the bed would or could heal me, in fact no one at the center I went to had a clue of my problem (nor did they need to know). I found out for myself. Look at the myriad cases of scoliosis. While there have been many cases of successful (and necessary), surgical intervention, from the literature I have read there is a large population which has not been. I simply think that lying on the heated bed surface (sans roller movement) could be helpful to just about anyone. Thanks for your desire to help people, I feel the same way.

coach
06-03-2006, 01:29 AM
fwiw, I personally think it is a positive for someone to move in such a manner.

Nuga CEO Cho Syung Hyun was a branch manager at Migun from 8/96 to 10/98 and head of a research center at Ceragem from 2000/3 to 2002/4 before moving to Nuga in 2002/6.

i'm in the process of researching beds and just happened to come to this thread ... thanks for posting info on migun, ceragem, nuga, sensa etc.

j1255
09-14-2006, 05:47 AM
i am currently working at a ceragem center (it's been almost 2 weeks now) and i've learned a whole lot about how the bed works,how it's different from chirpractic or physio therapy treatments and how it could be more beneficial than those two treatments.
a lot of people come into the center and use the ceragem bed (for free as long as they want) stating that it's their last hope in trying to bring some relief to their troubled areas. not only does is bring physical relief to typical aches and pains that your body experiences throughout its life, but it also helps increase the circulation in your body. a lot ot people come to the center to help with their diabetes, cholestoral, blood pressure, arthitis, and many other problems-and it does seem to help.
i don't know if the person who owned that ceragem center that you went to explained anything to you, but the one i'm at, the person gives lectures on how the bed works. i know that the bed helps with the acu-points in your back, stimulating the blood flow into the spine (the discs)-that's why the jade rollers stop at certain points in your back for two mintues each (your body pressure pushes back on the rollers and puts space where the disc is and the heat stimulated blood flow to that area), which ultimately helps the nerves in the muscles surrounding your spine which are connected to a lot of points in your body (ie. organs). the important thing with using(tryiny out) the ceragem bed is to come regularly, everyday if possible. everyone is different and therefore everyone's recovery time (seeing the positive changes) is different. some take days to notice an improvement while others may need weeks, months, or even years. i know that it works because there are a lot of people who can testify to its ability to improve your body. again, at the center i'm at, the owner shows video tapes of people who have tried the bed and have seen great improvement. some also bring in their blood test results-before using the bed and after using the bed- to compare and show others how it's worked for them. i don't know if you consider that evidence but i sure do. i'm not familiar with the other beds that were mentioned by you guys (migun, nuga?) but i know that the ceragem bed helps both the physical ailments people have as well as the internal ones (diabetes, blood pressure, cholestoral..etc). hope you give it another try-try to bear the pain,be patient, and have hope. :)

macky
09-15-2006, 04:15 AM
Oh for goodness sake. A ceragem bed helps diabetes. That would have to be the most cruel thing to state. The pancreas that stops producing insulin and patients with diabetes mellulitus have to have up to 5 injections a day to stay alive, and a bed helps it!!!!!!!, you actually give patients that kind of hope!!!!!! May god forgive you.

!!~!!!!!!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself. Put yourself in a diabetics position and stop writing this rubbish.
This is a scoliosis board anyway, so goodbye.!!!!!!!

Macky (Sorry everyone but that was all I could stand)