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View Full Version : I haven't posted in a few years. And I'm still a mess.



so_shy
08-28-2016, 07:11 PM
Any help with my "back issue" would be greatly appreciated

Below are five pictures, each numbered with descriptions.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z404/flahblosteem/bck_pic.jpg

The way the shirt "fits" in picture 4, with my arms down at my side, looking mildly roundback, though it makes me feel really lousy, I can live with. But of course, I can't go through life with my arms ALWAYS down at my side. One has to raise their arm and extend it, whether to shake a hand, open a door, reach out to turn a key, or grab something off a shelf, etc. And it's what you see in picture 5, the way my scapula sticks so far out when I raise and extend my right arm, and the way the shirt tightly "hugs" and highlights the huge protruding hump, that induces my severe repulsion, that paralyzes me, that prevents me from being able to function in the real world.

Now women's shirts come in, first, a variety in terms of looseness or tightness. And second, they come in a variety of neckline widths, from a quarter of the way between the neck and shoulders, to half way, to some go right out to the edge of the shoulders, and in each case, affording space in front of and behind the neck, where as men's shirts are all close/tight around the neck (collar shirts, crew necks, and even V necks, which give only some space in the front part, but none in the back).

newly added image: see how women have a variety of neckline widths: http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z404/flahblosteem/neckline_widths.jpg

Five years ago, members suggested I try wearing a kind of wide-neck shirt, called a scoop neck shirt, that might give me more room. I had never heard of a men's wide-neck shirt. A men's scoop neck shirt, I didn't know such thing existed. Members provided links to show me. One link displayed several MEN's scoop necks, but they were sold in Australia. Another member provided a link to Nordstrom. I was so excited! And in 2012, I found and went to a Nordstrom, expecting and hoping to be able to buy scoop neck shirts. Unfortunately, I learned that Nordstrom doesn't sell men's scoop neck shirts IN the store itself. They could be bought from Nordstrom only online and I can't buy a shirt online for a couple of reasons, the most important is that I need to be able to try on the shirt, in a fitting room, to see if it fits. So I left Nordstrom devastated, utterly crushed. (Subsequently, and with great dread and anxiety, I went to a number of clothing stores in the hope of finding men's wide neck/scoop neck shirts, but they just don't carry them.)

First, let me say, I know you are not doctors, but I welcome any comments regarding my back on what you are seeing from the pictures I posted, and I welcome any suggestions for dealing with my problem. But the most important question I hope to be answered is if you can tell me whether there are any clothing stores that sell men's scoop neck shirts actually IN their stores. (And also if any sell LOOSE-FITTING men's shirts as well). It would mean so much to me, as I am so self-conscious and utterly depressed.

(Again, if I don't reply in a timely fashion, which could mean hours or even DAYS, please forgive me as I am not always free to reply, or I'm too ill.)

Pooka1
08-28-2016, 07:27 PM
So shy! I remember you! Welcome back!

I am sorry you are still struggling so much with these issues. You are certainly not alone in these struggles.

Have you had a consult lately with an experienced orthopedic surgeon? It would be good for you to know the size of your curves and degree of your kyphosis. Maybe you are in surgical range and could be helped. If not there is at least one surgeon who seems to have a lower surgical threshold for the purpose of saving discs.

I'm glad you checked back in and hope you stick around.

so_shy
08-28-2016, 07:42 PM
So shy! I remember you! Welcome back!

I am sorry you are still struggling so much with these issues. You are certainly not alone in these struggles.

Have you had a consult lately with an experienced orthopedic surgeon? It would be good for you to know the size of your curves and degree of your kyphosis. Maybe you are in surgical range and could be helped. If not there is at least one surgeon who seems to have a lower surgical threshold for the purpose of saving discs.

I'm glad you checked back in and hope you stick around.

Hi Pooka.

Thank you for the warm welcome back.

I do moniter my condition visually. I mean, I look in the mirror. I know how I looked years ago. I don't see any change, and if I have, it would be only a few degrees if any.

But I would have liked to see an orthopedic surgeon (though i realize they would still say I'm not a candidate for surgery).

The problem is, my parents can't know about it. They are very loving parents, but on this issue, they have never "understood" how much emotional anguish it causes. I learned years ago never to bring it up with them again because when I used to try to explain the anguish, they would reply that I needed to just live with it. They just "don't get it." And if I were to go to an orthopedic surgeon, that would raise alarm bells. I can see them saying, WHY are you going? And, oh not this again, you're still depressed about your scoliosis!

The last time I was able to see an orthopedic surgeon was the late 90s and 2000 ... because my therapist allowed me to use her office address and phone number when I made the appointments with those doctors. (This way I wouldn't be called at home or get mail to my house.) So back then, I was able to secretly see doctors and they said I was moderate and not a candidate for surgery.

(just to let you know, I am able to reply now because my parents aren't home ... once they return, I have to get off this website . That's how pathetic my life is.)

Pooka1
08-28-2016, 08:20 PM
The problem is, my parents can't know about it. They are very loving parents, but on this issue, they have never "understood" how much emotional anguish it causes. I learned years ago never to bring it up with them again because when I used to try to explain the anguish, they would reply that I needed to just live with it. They just "don't get it." And if I were to go to an orthopedic surgeon, that would raise alarm bells. I can see them saying, WHY are you going? And, oh not this again, you're still depressed about your scoliosis!

The last time I was able to see an orthopedic surgeon was the late 90s and 2000 ... because my therapist allowed me to use her office address and phone number when I made the appointments with those doctors. (This way I wouldn't be called at home or get mail to my house.) So back then, I was able to secretly see doctors and they said I was moderate and not a candidate for surgery.

(just to let you know, I am able to reply now because my parents aren't home ... once they return, I have to get off this website . That's how pathetic my life is.)

So shy.

I am not qualified in any mental health field. But I am a parent. It seems to me the problem is NOT with you and your feelings but rather with how your parents are NOT helping you. They should be getting you any and all manner of medical help not just for your physical well being but also for your mental well being. Yesterday.

Please pardon my directness.

so_shy
08-28-2016, 11:14 PM
So shy.

I am not qualified in any mental health field. But I am a parent. It seems to me the problem is NOT with you and your feelings but rather with how your parents are NOT helping you. They should be getting you any and all manner of medical help not just for your physical well being but also for your mental well being. Yesterday.

Please pardon my directness.

As I said, I'm middle-aged, and they are now in their "golden years." At this point, I don't want to stress them out anymore. They have been good to me in EVERY other respect. Bent over backwards for me.

As far as the scoliosis and kyphosis, when I was first diagnosed, they took me to specialists, and they took me a few times a year throughout my teen years to be checked (x-rays to monitor any progression). But in the latter teen years and into my twenties, a few times I tried to express the emotional anguish that having these conditions were causing me, and they just didn't seem to fathom what I was saying. The last time I actually expressed to them this anguish was over two decades ago, and they still just didn't get it, and I felt guilty, ashamed, and haven't brought it up since. But I did discuss it with the therapists I was seeing over those years (psychiatrists, psychologists). I've been on a ton of medications, but nothing short of a straight back, or being able to hide or "mitigate" the condition with clothing will work. And that's what I've been stuck on for over the past 16 years, trying to find shirts I can wear that hide or "mitigate" the horror. Five years ago, members made suggestions. Some I was able to try and some I could not. Those suggestions that I tried didn't work, and I'll share those details down the road (as I said, I'm posting now just to re-introduce myself and my situation, since it's been a few years that I posted here.)

I'm sad. I'm miserable. I hope posting again on this message board will give me some small degree of relief, as I have no one in the "real" world I can literally talk to, no one in the flesh, that is. And I hope after I describe my failed attempts regarding those suggestions from five years ago, members might be able to provide me with alternate ones.

mabeckoff
08-29-2016, 01:50 AM
Welcome back!

Melissa

so_shy
08-30-2016, 05:01 PM
Welcome back!

Melissa

Thank you, Melissa

flerc
08-30-2016, 10:46 PM
How many degrees do you have?

so_shy
08-31-2016, 06:02 PM
How many degrees do you have?

I don't know the exact numbers. In all the years I had been checked, I never paid close attention to the numbers because I was so distraught about the whole situation. I have a vague memory of the scoliosis curve in the upper spine being in the 20s. I can't remember if the last specialist I saw said it was 23 or 28 degrees. I also have no exact memory what the scoliosis curve in the lower spine is (but when I posted a few years ago, I think I said in the mid or upper teens). I have NO memory of how many degrees my kyphosis or lordosis is. Again, I do recall being told each of my curves was moderate, and that I wasn't a candidate for surgery. (As I said earlier, the first chance I get, I am going to take pictures and post them. I just don't have the privacy right now, but I hope within a week to be able to take and upload those pictures.)

burdle
09-01-2016, 07:11 AM
I can fully understand the emotional stress that your Scoliosis causes but you must find out the facts. This way you may be able to deal with the issue.

Finding out the degree of the curvature will help you understand why surgery is not being recommended. If it is in the 20s that would probably be why they will not operate.

You do not seem to mention pain problems as much as the physical appearance of your back. obviously it is very noticeable to you but you can get help with dealing with these feelings.

Do your parents access your pc? Can you buy yourself your own pc or ipad so that you can use without worry. This way you can start making friends on social media and maybe reaching out a bit more.

I understand that you don't want to hurt your parents but there is no reason why they should be aware of any activity on-line at all.

so_shy
09-01-2016, 05:58 PM
I can fully understand the emotional stress that your Scoliosis causes but you must find out the facts. This way you may be able to deal with the issue.

Finding out the degree of the curvature will help you understand why surgery is not being recommended. If it is in the 20s that would probably be why they will not operate.

You do not seem to mention pain problems as much as the physical appearance of your back. obviously it is very noticeable to you but you can get help with dealing with these feelings.

Do your parents access your pc? Can you buy yourself your own pc or ipad so that you can use without worry. This way you can start making friends on social media and maybe reaching out a bit more.

I understand that you don't want to hurt your parents but there is no reason why they should be aware of any activity on-line at all.

No, I have no physical pain from my three spinal conditions. But I do have all sorts of physical symptoms that are all manifestations of the emotional and psychological distress. The emotional pain is chronic and intense. The whole thing has basically paralyzed me in that I literally can't do a multitude of things, some very basic. (If I had to estimate, over the past 16 years and still today, I probably spend 95 percent of my time not in my house, but in MY ROOM in my house. That's what I mean by withdrawn.)

In the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s I saw several psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and neither medication or "talk" therapy helped.

Yes my parents have access to my computer. They rarely use it but they could walk in on me any time, so I have to be careful as to when I come to this site.

This message board is where I first reached out five years ago, and to where I've returned to seek help.

burdle
09-02-2016, 07:03 AM
No, I have no physical pain from my three spinal conditions. But I do have all sorts of physical symptoms that are all manifestations of the emotional and psychological distress. The emotional pain is chronic and intense. The whole thing has basically paralyzed me in that I literally can't do a multitude of things, some very basic. (If I had to estimate, over the past 16 years and still today, I probably spend 95 percent of my time not in my house, but in MY ROOM in my house. That's what I mean by withdrawn.)

In the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s I saw several psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers and neither medication or "talk" therapy helped.

Yes my parents have access to my computer. They rarely use it but they could walk in on me any time, so I have to be careful as to when I come to this site.

This message board is where I first reached out five years ago, and to where I've returned to seek help.

Hard as it seems it is only you can change the situation. You have made a start by reaching out again. I am not a psychiatrist but your inability to do things could be from a cause totally separate from the spinal condition. How is it that your parents are not worried about the fact that you stay in your room? Do they not ask you? You say you don't want to worry them but they must be worried now?

I think you have to ask yourself What do I want? Sometime you have to put yourself first!

so_shy
09-03-2016, 05:50 PM
Hard as it seems it is only you can change the situation. You have made a start by reaching out again. I am not a psychiatrist but your inability to do things could be from a cause totally separate from the spinal condition. How is it that your parents are not worried about the fact that you stay in your room? Do they not ask you? You say you don't want to worry them but they must be worried now?

I think you have to ask yourself What do I want? Sometime you have to put yourself first!

I have to be quick and brief, as I have a small window of opportunity to reply, so I apologize.

My parents just think it's severe chronic depression. And it is that. They just don't realize what's the underlying primary cause, despite my having told them two decades ago the conditions were making me depressed. I know that must be hard for anyone reading this to wrap their head around. As for my being withdrawn all these years, they accept it because they know when I was "living" or trying to live in the real world, everything I did ended up in crashing failure. The intensity of the emotional agony made me dysfunctional in everything I attempted. Emotional agony caused by self-consciousness, self-loathing, AND by the pain inflicted on me by others (other kids, teachers, co-workers, etc.) who verbally made fun of how I looked, or imitated how I looked and walked and sat. A lot of cruelty I endured.

Let me just add, and I plead for patience because as I said, I can only be on this website at certain times, but today I was finally able to take the pictures of my back, from various angles. I have only time to type this reply but I hope and expect in the next few days to find a moment I can upload them to photobucket and share them with others, and describe what the problems I'm facing regarding those pictures in terms of not being a candidate for corrective surgery and regarding finding clothes I can wear so perhaps one day I can get dressed and live in the real world again like a normal human being.

so_shy
09-17-2016, 06:02 PM
The initial post I made several weeks ago was just to re-introduce myself since it's been years that I posted here

That done, I have completely rewritten the initial post, including a link to 5 pictures of my back, each numbered picture with a description.

Any help would be appreciated.

boogaloo
09-18-2016, 04:42 AM
I think your back looks good. On picture 2 I don't see a rib hump caused by scoliosis, and it would really show off on that picture if it was significant. Your kyphosis looks mild to me. On picture 3 it looks like you are just standing in a weird way and leaning backwards, not just raising your hand. This is just my lay opinion, I could be all wrong about this. Of course t-shirt will be tight around your back if you have a belly and that you need bigger size because of that.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 09:57 AM
I think your back looks good. On picture 2 I don't see a rib hump caused by scoliosis, and it would really show off on that picture if it was significant. Your kyphosis looks mild to me. On picture 3 it looks like you are just standing in a weird way and leaning backwards, not just raising your hand. This is just my lay opinion, I could be all wrong about this. Of course t-shirt will be tight around your back if you have a belly and that you need bigger size because of that.

I thank you but I just don't see that "my back looks good" and throughout my life others have confirmed how bad I look as I have been verbally made fun or imitated by SO many (classmates, teachers, co-workers, acquaintances, strangers).

Compare how my back goes from ROUNDED in pictures 2 and 4 where my arm is down at my side, to pictures 3 and 5 where with my arm up, the scapula is protruding greatly.

It was difficult enough taking just those few pictures but if I had put on that shirt in my normal size (which should be a small or medium), or a bunch of DIFFERENT kinds of shirts in my normal size, you would see that I look even worse.

And you are seeing the hump from just one angle. Again, it made me sick just taking those five pictures but you would see from a host of other angles how bad my right side is.

(My belly protrudes, I was told, because of my lordosis. I don't mind the belly. It's the pointy jutting out scapula hump on my right side that I makes me sick.)

boogaloo
09-18-2016, 10:03 AM
I can relate to you about your "mental pain" associated with your condition. I was there in one part of my life few years ago. And you know what, no one can help you if you won't help yourself. You spent too much time hiding in your house/bedroom. You are healthy, you have no pain and you can do all the things you imagine, but you don't. Imagine how many people would give everything in the world just to be pain free and to be able to walk. You have all that and you are spending your life in your room.
Why? Because of some people who might comment about your back? But you know what, no one cares about your back and how you look. At least people who care about you, your friends and family. Other people have their own life and don't care about some random person on the street. Life will pass and you will look back on the times when you could do everything and you will be sorry for not living your life like you should lived. My warm suggestion is to try to get professional help if you can't do it on your own.
Start working on yourself, set goals. Carreer, hobby, sports. Anything that will distract you from your current mindset. Things will start to fall into place. It's not easy but it could be done. Step by step, day by day. I wish you all the best!

Pooka1
09-18-2016, 10:07 AM
Do you have measurements on your lordosis and kyphosis? Is it possible they are in the normal range? If so will that ease your mind at all?

ETA, I work with a guy who does not have scoliosis but he has the winging scapula and he has non-iatrogenic flatback (never had surgery). He has nerve damage in his shoulder and neck from this stuff. He is in pain and has numbness and is getting therapy.

His scapula looks like yours when you extend you arm. Nobody noticed his winging scapula until he mentioned it. I have been working in the field with this guy for years in the back of a water quality truck with him reaching for things only a few feet next to me and I never noticed it until he told me.

I mention this to echo boogaloo in saying people are not paying attention to your posture. Most people don't even pay attention to their own posture. My daughters curves got pretty large before anyone noticed them.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 10:16 AM
I can relate to you about your "mental pain" associated with your condition. I was there in one part of my life few years ago. And you know what, no one can help you if you won't help yourself. You spent too much time hiding in your house/bedroom. You are healthy, you have no pain and you can do all the things you imagine, but you don't. Imagine how many people would give everything in the world just to be pain free and to be able to walk. You have all that and you are spending your life in your room.
Why? Because of some people who might comment about your back? But you know what, no one cares about your back and how you look. At least people who care about you, your friends and family. Other people have their own life and don't care about some random person on the street. Life will pass and you will look back on the times when you could do everything and you will be sorry for not living your life like you should lived. My warm suggestion is to try to get professional help if you can't do it on your own.
Start working on yourself, set goals. Carreer, hobby, sports. Anything that will distract you from your current mindset. Things will start to fall into place. It's not easy but it could be done. Step by step, day by day. I wish you all the best!

Thank you boogaloo but what you suggested I actually TRIED. I saw psychiatrists and pyschologists for years, and was on all kinds of medication for the anxiety and other emotional and mental problems my condition causes. I had goals and I pursued them vigorously. I participated in life and gave it my all. But again and again, the self-consciousness, the self-repulsion, and having that self-consciousness and self-repulsion confirmed by the way others treated me, just sank me. Every effort ended in failure to where I finally was so emotionally sick and I could no longer physically exist in the real world the way a normal person does. It would be an understatement to say I made a hell of an effort.

Yes, I know others have it worse in life. That has always created tremendous guilt. But in the past few years I have read online accocunts of others with scoliosis (and kyphosis) who were psychologically damaged and who still sought out help, and many got help and relief in the form of surgery and who then went on to talk about how free they felt and how they got their lives back. (I've read stories online. I've watched videos on YouTube.) Surgery is not an option for me, being only "moderate" so finding clothes, particularly shirts I can wear is my only solution it seems. And that's why I'm reluctantly posting on a message board, my only option left to seek help as all other options in the past have failed.

boogaloo
09-18-2016, 10:46 AM
Try to make an appointment and see where your curves are at. Maybe you could find someone who would operate if you are sub surgical. Yes there are good testimonials, but there are also bad. Getting surgery just for cosmetic reasons is not really a good idea, if there is no progression and/or pain. What if you end up with pain after surgery or need revision/s? Surgery should always be a last resort for adults.
You really think that proper shirt will solve your problem? I doubt it.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 06:13 PM
Do you have measurements on your lordosis and kyphosis? Is it possible they are in the normal range? If so will that ease your mind at all?

ETA, I work with a guy who does not have scoliosis but he has the winging scapula and he has non-iatrogenic flatback (never had surgery). He has nerve damage in his shoulder and neck from this stuff. He is in pain and has numbness and is getting therapy.

His scapula looks like yours when you extend you arm. Nobody noticed his winging scapula until he mentioned it. I have been working in the field with this guy for years in the back of a water quality truck with him reaching for things only a few feet next to me and I never noticed it until he told me.

I mention this to echo boogaloo in saying people are not paying attention to your posture. Most people don't even pay attention to their own posture. My daughters curves got pretty large before anyone noticed them.

I actually went to a PHYSICAL therapist back in the 1990s who said just that, I had a winged scapula. And he gave me exercises to do, so I went out and bought a bench, weights, and other devices and did all the exercises he gave me to build up various back and chest muscles, the serratus anterior being the most important, he said. I built up those muscles over a year and a half but my scapula still protruded horribly when I used my right arm. I think he mistook a rib hump for a winged scapula (as in recent years I was able to confirm online that often a winged scapula is used mistakenly to describe a scapula that protrudes not because of weak serratus anterior muscles but because of the curvature and rotation of the spine on one side. And I recall another member five years ago saying something to that effect). To show how desperate I've been, I still have all that equipment and four years ago started doing the exercises again, telling myself (or is that deluding myself) into thinking that maybe I just didn't do those exercises correctly or I didn't try hard enough the first time, back in the 1990s. So I have a lot of that muscle back, but again it's obvious it's the scoliosis that's the cause of the protruding scapula, the hump. So no one can say I haven't tried.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 06:20 PM
Try to make an appointment and see where your curves are at. Maybe you could find someone who would operate if you are sub surgical. Yes there are good testimonials, but there are also bad. Getting surgery just for cosmetic reasons is not really a good idea, if there is no progression and/or pain. What if you end up with pain after surgery or need revision/s? Surgery should always be a last resort for adults.
You really think that proper shirt will solve your problem? I doubt it.

Yes I do believe finding the right shirts, shirts with wider necks and that are loose fitting, will help. I know clothes can make a difference because when I was younger we lived in a section of the country that was very cold, where in the winter you had to wear a huge heavy coat every day. And I noticed during that time of the year, wearing such a big heavy coat (which greatly concealed my kyphosis and scoliosis), my level of anxiety dropped significantly. But we moved to a section of the country where winters are much more mild, where most people wear moderate or light jackets in the winter, not the kind that cover up my conditions the way the heavy coats did back when we lived in the super cold part of the country.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 06:29 PM
I added this to my initial post just to show the variety of neckline widths that women's shirts come in: http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z404/flahblosteem/neckline_widths.jpg

As I said, five years ago members told me that wider neck, loose fitting shirts are made for men, though they are a rarity. The problem is finding stores that sell them. (I can't buy them online.) If I could just find which if any stores sell them.

Pooka1
09-18-2016, 06:44 PM
So no one can say I haven't tried.

I certainly hope nobody is saying that, thinking that, or judging you at all.

You say this has happened in real life and I am very sorry for that. It certainly couldn't happen in my work place and I have never seen anyone being mistreated for a physical condition anywhere I have ever worked.

so_shy
09-18-2016, 07:03 PM
I certainly hope nobody is saying that, thinking that, or judging you at all.

You say this has happened in real life and I am very sorry for that. It certainly couldn't happen in my work place and I have never seen anyone being mistreated for a physical condition anywhere I have ever worked.

I have a stored library in my brain of all the times over the past three decades I was made fun or imitated. It would take pages and pages if I were to write out all those incidents. But I'll just a give a couple to show the kind of cruel things people have said or done. In school we went to a play, and another student in front of the others pointed to me and said, referring to a character in the play we had seen, "You could play the hunchback." I had one teacher yell at me for walking in a slumped manner. Another teacher imitated the way one shoulder was higher than another while I was sitting in a chair and leaning in a way that obviously highlighted my condition. I had a co-worker come up to me and tell me "I can tell what kind of person you are, it's the way you walk, your body langauge." He pushed his shoulders in and dropped his head into his chest and then proceeded to tell me what kind of a person I was. I had a doctor, yes a doctor, the first time he saw me in his office, said, "Oh, hunchback." (I shared that story of the doctor five years ago.) I could go on but it would take pages. And every time someone made fun of me, it hit me in the gut. It ripped me apart. Ripped ripped ripped ripped me apart, horrible pain. Sucked the life right out of me. I cried in private. And it all confirmed my own self-repulsion. (Especially when someone would imitate me. It was like I was looking in the mirror. Seeing their imitation of me, the way they altered or contorted their body, that it was exactly what I would see in the mirror when I looked at myself, told me that this was no case of body dysmorphia because their imitations were spot on.)

boogaloo
09-20-2016, 07:10 AM
I am sorry to hear that you have been mistreated by other people. Bullying is something "normal" that almost all kids go through the for whatever reason it may be. Kids just do that.
When grown people do that, that just speaks for them selfs. I don't know what do you want to hear from us here? You are a grown men, if you can't get over these things then you should seek help. You don't have pain, you are not progressing, you are not in surgical range, you don't have limitations other than that in your mind. Majority of people here are in pain, more deformed than you with curves much bigger than yours.

Pooka1
09-20-2016, 07:35 AM
I am sorry to hear that you have been mistreated by other people. Bullying is something "normal" that almost all kids go through the for whatever reason it may be. Kids just do that.
When grown people do that, that just speaks for them selfs. I don't know what do you want to hear from us here? You are a grown men, if you can't get over these things then you should seek help. You don't have pain, you are not progressing, you are not in surgical range, you don't have limitations other than that in your mind. Majority of people here are in pain, more deformed than you with curves much bigger than yours.

I have exchanged a few PMs with him. He was afraid of coming off as whining when other people's backs are much worse.

Though his back is in better shape than that of many here, his mind, emotions, and feelings seem much, much worse. If he is traumatized by his physical appearance then that is connected to his scoliosis. In that sense it is like nerve pain that does or does not accompany scoliosis in various people irrespective of their Cobb angle. He has tremendous psychological pain associated with his scoliosis irrespective of his Cobb angle. People are not necessarily in control of their brain chemistry.

He says he just wants help finding the wide-necked men's shirts. He says that is the key going forward for him. That's ALL he wants at this point from the group. Someone several years ago said that might help with his appearance so he has been looking for them. Frankly, I don't understand that suggestion and think it might make matters more noticeable but whatever.

There is nothing anyone here can say to change his feelings about his condition. If professionals can't help him then I doubt we can other than with shirt store suggestions.

so_shy
09-20-2016, 09:30 AM
I have exchanged a few PMs with him. He was afraid of coming off as whining when other people's backs are much worse.

Though his back is in better shape than that of many here, his mind, emotions, and feelings seem much, much worse. If he is traumatized by his physical appearance then that is connected to his scoliosis. In that sense it is like nerve pain that does or does not accompany scoliosis in various people irrespective of their Cobb angle. He has tremendous psychological pain associated with his scoliosis irrespective of his Cobb angle. People are not necessarily in control of their brain chemistry.

He says he just wants help finding the wide-necked men's shirts. He says that is the key going forward for him. That's ALL he wants at this point from the group. Someone several years ago said that might help with his appearance so he has been looking for them. Frankly, I don't understand that suggestion and think it might make matters more noticeable but whatever.

There is nothing anyone here can say to change his feelings about his condition. If professionals can't help him then I doubt we can other than with shirt store suggestions.

First, I see that already (and not you Pooka) a couple here are doing just as I feared. They see me as a nuisance. I see some annoyance with me.

Second, the suggestion that I get wider neck shirts was suggested by members here five years ago. The point was that shirts that afford some space around the neck, from front and most important from behind, would help mitigate the degree to which I look roundback. Shirts that ride high up the neck, which are 99% of most men's shirts, highlight the degree to which I look rounded. (And a looser fitting shirt would help mitigate the degree to which my protruding scapula shows). One member even provided a link to Nordstrom. I went to a Nordstrom four years ago. They didn't carry the shirt in the STORE itself. So I've come back here because this forum is where the suggestion was made regarding shirts. I was hoping members might know what stores sell them since they are familiar with this type of shirt.

If no one knows, I won't prolong this discussion anymore. I'll delete this thread and disappear.

(For those reading this reply who read my initial post a month ago, where I reintroduced myself, I completely rewrote that initial post. So if you think I'm still whining, please reread the first post that begins this thread. I posted a link to a set of pictures of my back, each with a description, and in the text I presented a specific question.)

jackieg412
09-20-2016, 12:36 PM
So Shy, I will only comment on the winging of the scapula. It can be a big problem. But there is help for that. If you read some of the problems that I faced it can be diagnosed and then helped. Part of my problem was function of the arm. But you haven't mentioned that . But check it out

boogaloo
09-20-2016, 06:46 PM
So_shy I am really really sorry if I offended you in some way, it wasn't my intention. My intention was to help and try to motivate you. Now I understand that my words won't change your situation so do whatever you think might help you.

so_shy
09-20-2016, 10:51 PM
So Shy, I will only comment on the winging of the scapula. It can be a big problem. But there is help for that.

What kind of help? (Years ago, I did the exercises a physical therapist gave me to build up the muscles that were supposed to reduce the winging. It didn't reduce the winging. Five years ago I remember another member saying my scapula is still "winging" despite building up those muscles because the winging was a result of my scoliosis, that it's actually my rib hump.)


If you read some of the problems that I faced it can be diagnosed and then helped. Part of my problem was function of the arm. But you haven't mentioned that . But check it out

How do I check it out?

Thank you jackie

(I just want to add that I have come to the conclusion that exercise won't reduce it, and surgery is not an option as I have only a "moderate" case, despite it being very visible, of scoliosis and kyphosis, and that finding the right shirts is my only real option.)

so_shy
09-20-2016, 11:01 PM
So_shy I am really really sorry if I offended you in some way, it wasn't my intention. My intention was to help and try to motivate you. Now I understand that my words won't change your situation so do whatever you think might help you.

Thank you boogaloo, (I want help but in no way do I want to burden others. I apologize to anyone who I might be driving crazy because I tend to be, as I was five years ago, repetitive.)

jackieg412
09-21-2016, 12:54 AM
So Shy, you can look up the threads that I posted to follow up my journey with a winged scapula. My shoulder was depressed and my arm was stuck. You haven't mentioned an arm problem but you may either not have it or you may just be used to it. But the winging can be helped, sometimes by PT. I know you said you did that but you can't stop the exercise. It is a problem that needs treatment.
An upper extremity specialist can check you and give you direction.But don't give up.It can be helped. The upper extremity specialist is not a spine doctor so he will look at the issue differently. If you can't find my posts I will send you a link.

jackieg412
09-22-2016, 09:48 PM
I know you said that surgery wasn't an option for you and I know you saw a spine specialist but with the winging of the scapula you should see an upper extremity specialist. Yes PT may be ordered but the specialist may direct them to the right muscles. And you said you did the exercises but I have found out you can't quit them. It is a battle. Winging of the scapula does have other causes so the specialist will address those. I did have scoliosis surgery and developed the winging after. I had 2 other surgeries to correct that, but this was done in a large university hospital as they are not common procedures.
However you have not mentioned difficulty with motion. That is very important.

green m&m
09-25-2016, 11:00 PM
Try American Apparel if there's a store by you -- They have different cuts of shirts for men.

Just checked and they have deep v-neck, and something they are calling "Le new big tee" that's a wide neck, another shirt they are calling Viscose
Sexuali-Tee that's very loose and low wide neck.

http://store.americanapparel.net/en/men-s-t-shirts_cat33192


That's the only store I can think of that's a franchise and common enough as a physical store that you could visit.

so_shy
09-26-2016, 01:36 PM
Try American Apparel if there's a store by you -- They have different cuts of shirts for men.

Just checked and they have deep v-neck, and something they are calling "Le new big tee" that's a wide neck, another shirt they are calling Viscose
Sexuali-Tee that's very loose and low wide neck.

http://store.americanapparel.net/en/men-s-t-shirts_cat33192


That's the only store I can think of that's a franchise and common enough as a physical store that you could visit.

I searched and found there is an American Apparel about a half hour from me. I looked at the two kinds of shirts (Le new big tee and Viscose
Sexuali-Tee) and the first one looks very much like the shirts that were suggested and shared five years ago (but were only sold online). This gives me hope. Thank you so much, green m&m.

so_shy
09-26-2016, 01:39 PM
I know you said that surgery wasn't an option for you and I know you saw a spine specialist but with the winging of the scapula you should see an upper extremity specialist. Yes PT may be ordered but the specialist may direct them to the right muscles. And you said you did the exercises but I have found out you can't quit them. It is a battle. Winging of the scapula does have other causes so the specialist will address those. I did have scoliosis surgery and developed the winging after. I had 2 other surgeries to correct that, but this was done in a large university hospital as they are not common procedures.
However you have not mentioned difficulty with motion. That is very important.

No, I don't have any difficulty with motion. So I assume that means a surgeon wouldn't operate for just cosmetic reasons.

(I had actually asked a doctor many many years ago if there was a surgery to remove a scapula.)

jackieg412
09-26-2016, 05:08 PM
I will tell you that you wouldn't want your shoulder blade removed because it is responsible for 30 percent of all arm movement. Most people never think of their scapula but it is very important. I had a portion of my right removed but then the muscle failed.So I had a muscle transfer that improved movement and took away the winging.
I don't know if a surgeon would do the transfer to improve the look but true winging would affect your arm movement. If the upper extremity specialist would do it the look of it will be as if it never winged. But it is a complicated surgery that is performed by a high level specialist. It isn't a hard surgery like spine but it requires a lot of rehab.