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View Full Version : is PAIN in the top of TRAPEZIUS & the LEVATORE SCAPULAE related to SCOLIOSIS????



jrnyc
09-08-2013, 02:05 AM
lately i am having pain on left side of top of back...between neck
and shoulder...but it is not pain in the shoulder...
i looked up the anatomy...and it seems it is either top of trapezius or
what they call the levatore scapulae...or both...

does anyone know if a thoracic curve contributes to pain in those
areas between neck and shoulder, on the top of the back...???
it feels like muscle pain...
carrying anything...even Sparky's small water bottle on walks....causes
pain and aching...i do not use left arm for leash, so it is not from that.

my thoracic curve is smaller of two curves...it has remained in low
40's....last checked it was 42 degrees....it causes some muscle
spasms in my upper spine, and i get botox shots for that. every 3-4
months...

any info or similar experiences much appreciated...
jess

rohrer01
10-03-2013, 06:50 PM
You bet your bahootie it causes pain! That's where my pain is and where I get Botox and trigger point injections for the most part. I hope you can get a handle on it, Jess. Wow it's nice to be able to post again!

sjmcphee
10-03-2013, 09:27 PM
Hi Everyone, glad the forums back up.
Hi Jess,
Yes I get pain in this area too from time to time, but my scoliosis is only mild / moderate.
In fact, this was the area I used to get a 'burning pain' in prior to the work injury I told you guys about.

- Scott

jrnyc
10-03-2013, 10:45 PM
thanks for the replies, guys...
yes, it is nice to be able to post again.

the pain comes and goes...
it is when i carry something with left hand...
the pain travels, starting above shoulder as i described in first post...
so....i try not to carry anything with left hand...
that is how i am dealing with it for now...
if i mention it to pain doc, he will probably order yet another
MRI...and then...after it finds the problem, nothing gets done about it...
that is what happened with left hip...
he still wants me to get a steroid shot in the left hip...
i resisted...and it is finally healing, after months of pain...

jess...and Sparky

asccbodypro
04-07-2014, 09:03 PM
Sorry to hear of your pain but glad that I'm not alone in mine. Had my surgery 5 years ago. The pain is located at the top of my right rod and towards the scapula. I also have a terrible time with my Traps. Carrying and lifting my arms over my head have started to become difficult in the past few months. I, too have Botox for Migraines but my neurologist does my neck, traps and both sides of the rods hitting the scapula area. In the past this has helped but as of late it does not seem to be as affective. Waiting on results of MRI as CTscan by Ortho (in between docs right now) I was told by my PCM that the results showed bone fragments but she only read doc notes and could not tell me where those fragments were located. So not happy.

asccbodypro
04-07-2014, 09:06 PM
This pain originally began as a burning pain but over the months is best described as someone taking pliers to my skin and twisting/pulling it. Not fun. I also have a significant amount of crack and popping of my surgical area and above the rods similar to chiropractic adjustment when I lie on the floor flat on my back, which I often do to relief muscle fatigue...any takers on this one?

jrnyc
04-08-2014, 01:08 AM
so sorry to hear about your pain, Susan...
i cannot offer any help because i have not had the
surgery...yet....despite every scoli surgeon who has examined me
telling me to do so.

i hope your pain can resolve without medical intervention needed.
jess...and Sparky

asccbodypro
04-08-2014, 07:25 AM
i hope your pain can resolve without medical intervention needed.
jess...and Sparky[/COLOR]

Thanks! I hope so, too. I had my surgery five years ago and glad that I did. I was at the point where I putting it off was absolutely not an option. My concern know is I might be face with more. On the positive side of things I'm keeping my fingers crossed that its just time to get back to the massage therapist. Although that's not as fun as it sounds..

rohrer01
04-08-2014, 11:44 AM
This pain originally began as a burning pain but over the months is best described as someone taking pliers to my skin and twisting/pulling it. Not fun. I also have a significant amount of crack and popping of my surgical area and above the rods similar to chiropractic adjustment when I lie on the floor flat on my back, which I often do to relief muscle fatigue...any takers on this one?

Just my two cents worth, but it sounds like nerve pain to me. I would ask your surgeon about the popping and cracking noises that you get.
I also get Botox in my neck and upper traps. If you are getting too much in the muscles that help you raise your arms, that could be a solution to that problem. If it is pain that keeps you from raising your arms, I would also ask your surgeon about that. You should let your neurologist know about this burning pain. Maybe s/he can order an MRI to rule out any kind of disc herniation or other problem that could be pinching nerves and causing the burning. Superficial pain like that doesn't sound like muscle pain to me. I hope this is somewhat helpful. If not, I'm sorry. It's all I can think of right now.

I hope you get some relief and soon!

Take Care.

asccbodypro
04-08-2014, 12:48 PM
Just my two cents worth, but it sounds like nerve pain to me. I would ask your surgeon about the popping and cracking noises that you get.
I also get Botox in my neck and upper traps. If you are getting too much in the muscles that help you raise your arms, that could be a solution to that problem. If it is pain that keeps you from raising your arms, I would also ask your surgeon about that. You should let your neurologist know about this burning pain. Maybe s/he can order an MRI to rule out any kind of disc herniation or other problem that could be pinching nerves and causing the burning. Superficial pain like that doesn't sound like muscle pain to me. I hope this is somewhat helpful. If not, I'm sorry. It's all I can think of right now.



Thanks for input! I definitely agree that its probably nerve pain. Neuro is aware of the problem and I've went to Ortho and did just have recent (Feb) MRI, CT scan, X-rays. The delay in getting the results was my PCM only put in one referral so getting the follow up was delayed. I went to my PCM this past Friday and was told 3-4 bone fragments showed up although she didn't know where, she was only reading radiologists notes to the doc. My referral will be in the system this afternoon and I will call for follow up. I do have DDD from T1 and throughout cervical and know that I need surgery when I can no longer tolerate things. Just hoping hardware is intact. I see that others have this issues which reassures me that its just the nature of the beast perhaps

rohrer01
04-08-2014, 02:52 PM
Thanks for input! I definitely agree that its probably nerve pain. Neuro is aware of the problem and I've went to Ortho and did just have recent (Feb) MRI, CT scan, X-rays. The delay in getting the results was my PCM only put in one referral so getting the follow up was delayed. I went to my PCM this past Friday and was told 3-4 bone fragments showed up although she didn't know where, she was only reading radiologists notes to the doc. My referral will be in the system this afternoon and I will call for follow up. I do have DDD from T1 and throughout cervical and know that I need surgery when I can no longer tolerate things. Just hoping hardware is intact. I see that others have this issues which reassures me that its just the nature of the beast perhaps

You have bone fragments? I wonder if you broke one of your vertebrae? I guess if it's in the fused area and the fusion is solid that might be okay. But with the other symptoms you are having, I'm wondering if you broke the vertebra above the fusion and if those bone fragments are hitting a nerve in some way. DDD will DEFINITELY cause nerve pain. I have it in L5/S1 and I get pain all the way down to the bottom of my foot! I have dry cervical discs and at least one bone spur at C5. So my neck is definitely arthritic AND painful. I get symptoms going down my left arm. They use Botox to help with that. My muscles pinch off the blood supply and pinch the nerve to my left arm sometimes. That is awful! Please keep us updated on how you are doing. Did anyone have an explanation to why you can't raise your arms properly? Is it pain that prevents it or something else?

Take care and you're welcome!

asccbodypro
04-08-2014, 02:53 PM
lately i am having pain on left side of top of back...between neck
and shoulder...but it is not pain in the shoulder...
i looked up the anatomy...and it seems it is either top of trapezius or
what they call the levatore scapulae...or both...

does anyone know if a thoracic curve contributes to pain in those
areas between neck and shoulder, on the top of the back...???
it feels like muscle pain...
carrying anything...even Sparky's small water bottle on walks....causes
pain and aching...i do not use left arm for leash, so it is not from that.

my thoracic curve is smaller of two curves...it has remained in low
40's....last checked it was 42 degrees....it causes some muscle
spasms in my upper spine, and i get botox shots for that. every 3-4
months...

any info or similar experiences much appreciated...
jess

My fusion goes from L5 to T2 most of the pain is located in the Rhomboid area to the right of rod. My Traps are just constantly knotted up and usually the Botox takes care of that but this time it hasn't, so that's new. I'm not sure if I mentioned in this thread or another that I do get Botox for my migraines, neck,traps and rhomboid area. Like you, Jess, my problem is not the shoulder itself but the muscles. I had trigger point injections and they did NOTHING. I went to the pain clinic for countless steroid shots and to make a long story short those people dam near threw me over the edge. Not to mention they know nothing of managing medicine other than treating patients as drug seekers despite records that do not indicate so. That's when I stopped following my Scoli all together other than my neuro appointments. My state of mind was more important. I did keep up with my Neurology appointments because my migraines came back about 2 years after my surgery. The first suggestion was Botox. I love my Neurologist and his staff. Considering the circumstances that took place after Dr. Fox left the naval hospital, Dr. Wagner, was the light at the end of the tunnel. One thing that did get me back to "normal" was getting massages. I went twice a week and got 2 1/2 hour long massages every week for over a year. This sounds fun but was more of a workout for both my therapist and myself. The problem now is that I do not want to start racking up the bills again. It's a shame that the things that are most beneficial to us all are things that are not covered by insurance. I don't want meds as they don't help in the long run. I was a personal trainer and competitive body builder before all this happened. I don't need a physical therapist to sit on a stool and tell me how to pull a rubber band. What I need is massage therapy. Feeling frustrated as the day has progressed because like you, Jess, carrying the lightest of things feels like the weight of the world even though I still have a lot of muscle tone from weight lifting.

rohrer01
04-08-2014, 05:15 PM
Susan,
I had massage therapy and my insurance covered it under PT. It was done by a physical therapist. It was torture. I called it deep muscle massacre instead of massage! It didn't help because I have so much nerve pain that it just inflamed the nerves. I can't take that.

BUT, if it helps you, see if your hospitals PT department does deep muscle massage. I would have never known that they did it. It was prescribed by my PM&R (Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation) doctor in the neurosciences department.

The steroid shots help me. It seems if I get them too frequently that they don't help nearly as much. It's getting pretty bad but I'm holding off. I get L5/S1 and left SI joint injections. The lumbar ones don't hurt. The SI one about had me in tears! Then it took the FULL two weeks to kick in. But when it did, ahhh, did I ever feel better!

My doctor told me that being fused high up could interfere with me raising my arms. I don't know why. If you were previously able to raise your arms and now you're not, there's a problem there. My DIL is fused T2 - L1 I think. She has no problem raising her arms.

Check with your doctor about the PT massages so your insurance will cover it. I hope this is helpful.

Take care!

asccbodypro
04-08-2014, 09:46 PM
Susan,
I had massage therapy and my insurance covered it under PT. It was done by a physical therapist. It was torture. I called it deep muscle massacre instead of massage! It didn't help because I have so much nerve pain that it just inflamed the nerves. I can't take that.

BUT, if it helps you, see if your hospitals PT department does deep muscle massage. I would have never known that they did it. It was prescribed by my PM&R (Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation) doctor in the neurosciences department.

The steroid shots help me. It seems if I get them too frequently that they don't help nearly as much. It's getting pretty bad but I'm holding off. I get L5/S1 and left SI joint injections. The lumbar ones don't hurt. The SI one about had me in tears! Then it took the FULL two weeks to kick in. But when it did, ahhh, did I ever feel better!

My doctor told me that being fused high up could interfere with me raising my arms. I don't know why. If you were previously able to raise your arms and now you're not, there's a problem there. My DIL is fused T2 - L1 I think. She has no problem raising her arms.

Check with your doctor about the PT massages so your insurance will cover it. I hope this is helpful.

Take care!

I encountered so many problems once my surgeon retired. Being military we aren't told when our doctors retire and that's when my care got chaotic. You name it and I've had it done. Many years prior to even realizing that my Scoliosis started to progress my lumbar vertebra started to herniate and I had the SI joint injections and injections at L4-L5 numerous times. They never worked for me but I know many who have had fantastic results. 2 1/2 years post op I had multiple injections for my cervical spine and those made my migraines worse and the doctor threw his instruments down and walked out on me. That was my last time at the pain clinic and what landed me at the neuro clinic. Thank heavens! What I find so frustrating, as I'm sure everyone else does, is that doctors often say, "Well, this is what works...." Actually, I've found I seem to be the odd one standing. What I have noticed is that my shoulders are pulling forwarded and rotated downward which I'm sure is only adding to the problem and pain in the back. I'm definitely going to follow your advice and see what I can't do about having insurance pay for some of my massage therapy. I didn't have issues with lifting my arms over my head until just recently. Your DIL's fusion is like mine.....generally, I've been pretty strong aside of the typical flare ups that one would expect. One thing you are absolutely correct on is that massage therapy is painful when you've had scoli surgery or prior to. The longer I stuck with it the better it got. I got my appointment for May 21 so it will be interesting to see what this new doc has to say. Keep in mind Scoliosis is not their specialty at the naval hospital. I will be impressed if this doctor can answer my opening question, "How many years has Scoliosis been your specialty? How many surgeries have you performed and what is your understanding of my case since my surgery five years ago compared to my most recent tests?" A great surgeon will answer these questions with a smile on his face AND have taken the time to go through my case prior to walking in the exam room. If he can't then I've got a problem and I won't be sticking around. I can say one positive thing about having my surgery, it has made me stand up for myself more than I ever thought I would : ) Got of point there a little, sorry..

titaniumed
04-09-2014, 01:15 AM
Susan

Nice to have you back posting but not under these circumstances.....

Iíve had pain everywhere but in the scapula and or the traps. Iíve broken my arm, shoulder, had a shoulder rebuild, have 2 cervical herniationís, been fused up to T2, but no scapula or trap pain......makes it hard to post. (smiley face)

I totally agree with Rohrer about deep massage.....I had one that almost killed me!

I spent $1000 per month for around 6 years on massages leading up to my surgeries. I did my massages at the famous Steamboat Springs here near Virginia City, even Mark Twain, and Ulysses Grant had massages there which I think is special....I found that soaking in the mineral tubs in that hot water, then immediately having the massage right after helped with the results....

After I was fused, I no longer needed the massages. My therapist was devastated! I donít like the feeling of pressure over the rod section......

Facial massages are VERY nice.....I kinda miss those...

Maybe an NSAID would help.....our fire extinguishers. I like to keep a few handy just in case.

Ed

asccbodypro
04-09-2014, 08:25 AM
Susan

Nice to have you back posting but not under these circumstances.....

Iíve had pain everywhere but in the scapula and or the traps. Iíve broken my arm, shoulder, had a shoulder rebuild, have 2 cervical herniationís, been fused up to T2, but no scapula or trap pain......makes it hard to post. (smiley face)

I totally agree with Rohrer about deep massage.....I had one that almost killed me!

I spent $1000 per month for around 6 years on massages leading up to my surgeries. I did my massages at the famous Steamboat Springs here near Virginia City, even Mark Twain, and Ulysses Grant had massages there which I think is special....I found that soaking in the mineral tubs in that hot water, then immediately having the massage right after helped with the results....

After I was fused, I no longer needed the massages. My therapist was devastated! I donít like the feeling of pressure over the rod section......

Facial massages are VERY nice.....I kinda miss those...

Maybe an NSAID would help.....our fire extinguishers. I like to keep a few handy just in case.

Ed

Hi, Ed! It's good to hear from you and yes, it would be great if it were under different circumstances. Up until recently I generally didn't experience pain where my rods and other hardware were implanted. Most of my pain is above and around the rods, Rhomboids, Traps, Scapula. I do also at times have trouble with my ribs being sore on the right side as well. This is all definitely related to my Scoliosis and other degenerative conditions that exist. As for the massages, the worst part for me was having my back worked on. I never knew those Erector Spinae muscles hurt so bad until my massage therapist got in there with his elbow to work them out. My words to him, "Respect the rods!" I do have a pretty good medicine cabinet but what is frustrating is that nothing is helping. Valium use to work like a charm and I had been off it for a few years except for a few flare ups. Now, the Valium is not working. I saw on another post that I read last night that someone was prescribed Klonopin (?spelling). I'm wondering if that would work. Tramadol is like taking Tylenol, nothing. My PCM last week gave me Percocet but that is not helping either. I suppose I could take two but I'm not ready to take those measures. God bless my father because he is insisting that I get a hot tub and he will buy it. That is something that I do not want him to have to do but I'm going to look into a whirl pool bath tub to replace our tub in our bathroom. I wanted to put one in our kids bathroom when we remodeled not to long ago (thanks to a 14 year old and old pipes....fun story now, not last Easter!) But we didn't do it. I'm kicking myself! I did use essential oils for a while but that runs up bills as well and I've taken a break from them. I swear by them and would recommend them to anyone for anything. Can you see a trend here that I'm in a down sizing pay things off and get rid of the debt? After being out of work for so long it nice to finally be have gotten rid of debt that went towards making me better. I really don't want to have to go backwards rather than preparing for the future. The reality is, however, there may be no choice.

asccbodypro
04-09-2014, 12:57 PM
I've been one stretching gal today in preparation for a very long car ride to Fort Benning on Friday to see our son : ) And to top it off I just found a brand new pack of electrodes for my TENS unit! I thought I was going to have to wait until we were back. Feeling more confident that this car ride isn't going to be my undoing. My son's chosen career path is a different undoing all of its own : )