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Spyros
02-05-2013, 07:41 AM
Hi, my name is Spyros 25 years old guy who lives in Greece. i'm new here and i m happy that i found that forum 2 weeks now. I need your help/advise as soon as possible cause i have only 2 days to think about that decision. So my story is the following:

I have scoliosis S type at 68 degrees top and 48 bottom with my spine in torsion as well. I met the top orthopedic surgeon doctor here in Greece about my situation and he told me that the only solution is surgery. Ok by now.. i don t have any problem/fear about the surgeries and all these things. After that, I 've been told that there is a very good Chiropractor in Geneva, Switzeland, who makes 'miracles'. I contact him and he told me that he might correct me a while, but he doesnt know if i'll need surgery afterwards. He ask me to see me for a week, so as he can give me a final asnwer about if he can correct me without surgery needed, but he wants 2500 euro for that week. So i ll be needed 5000 euro for that trip, only to get an aswer if he can correct me or not without surgery needed.

So i'm asking you guys, Do you know if Chiropractors can do anything about my situation (scoliosis)? Do i have any chance to avoid surgery with that treatment? Is it worth it to pay 5000 euro just to get an answer about if that Chiropractor can treat me or not?

Thanks in advance,

Spyros Zochios

rkochis
02-05-2013, 09:58 AM
66 years old.....68 degree thoracic 42 degrees lumbar. I have seen literally a dozen medical professionals (including 3 chiropractors) over time. I never contemplated surgery.
In my opinion, if you are having organ issues, breathing difficulty or some other serious complication, then do the surgery. I would not do chiropractic without a written guaranteed (which I don't think you can get)

I have been on a exercise program that I put together from information from the internet. It includes Schroth breathing, yoga, light weights, isometrics, etc. I haven't been re-measured, but I am positive I have changed my body. My muscles are more symmetrical and stronger. Posture significantly improved. If you decide to not have surgery and want to learn about what I am doing then contact me directly. rkochis65@gmail.com I will send you all my stuff.
The best of luck to you.
Randy

flerc
02-05-2013, 12:52 PM
he wants 2500 euro for that week.

2500 euros!! I'd think is a fraude.

LindaRacine
02-05-2013, 01:01 PM
There has never been a single published study showing that chiropractic can do anything to eliminate the need for scoliosis surgery.

titaniumed
02-05-2013, 01:38 PM
Don"t spend the money.

I have extensive Chiro experiance over 26 years, it will not correct curves permanently....Been there done that.

I will post more later since Im at work


Welcome to the forum

Ed

Spyros
02-05-2013, 02:35 PM
2500 euros!! I'd think is a fraude.

Nope. I know that this chiro is one of the best in world.


There has never been a single published study showing that chiropractic can do anything to eliminate the need for scoliosis surgery.

Though i did watch some videos and read stories about people who had big scoliosis and after chiro they have 10+.


Don"t spend the money.

I have extensive Chiro experiance over 26 years, it will not correct curves permanently....Been there done that.

I will post more later since Im at work


Welcome to the forum

Ed

Maybe u didnt find any good Chipractors? :/

jrnyc
02-05-2013, 02:45 PM
spyros...
people have answered you...
but you seem to be fighting the answers they've given...
if you are determined to find reasons to believe what you
seem to want to believe, i am not sure why you asked the
questions...???

jess

Spyros
02-05-2013, 04:58 PM
Jess, i accept all their answers and thanks all for that. I just wanna clear up some things that are on my mind. Like the doctors that different from each others. as i told that doctor is one of the best. I m not going to a chiropractor in my country, town, neighborhood.

All i ask is if some1 has more info to give me about my topic or write me his/her experience like Ed wrote, but i m w8ing more infos from Ed. Seems like he has a lot of experience to share. :p

jrnyc
02-05-2013, 05:01 PM
i hate to see you waste money...
but sometimes we do not believe something til
we experience it..
i never got help from a chiropractor...the opposite, actually...
i fear there is potential for harm...
i did get help from injections...temporarily...

i wish you good luck and hope you find something that
alleviates pain...but i do not believe anything can change
curves, except surgery...

jess

Spyros
02-05-2013, 05:22 PM
but i do not believe anything can change
curves, except surgery...

jess

I agree on that. But, as i've been told, the specific chiropractor makes 'miracles' and i dont want after some years, when i ve done with surgery, a known guy come to me and say: Hey, i just finished my chiropractor's treatment and my curves went down from 60 degrees to 20 degrees and i feel like a child again. And i ll be in a lot of pain and stiffness. If you can understand me.

Thanks you again!

jrnyc
02-05-2013, 05:30 PM
yes, i understand...
i just hope you are not really disappointed...
you seem to feel you would be passing up a great
opportunity if you do not try this.

jess

Pooka1
02-05-2013, 06:07 PM
I agree on that. But, as i've been told, the specific chiropractor makes 'miracles' and i dont want after some years, when i ve done with surgery, a known guy come to me and say: Hey, i just finished my chiropractor's treatment and my curves went down from 60 degrees to 20 degrees and i feel like a child again. And i ll be in a lot of pain and stiffness. If you can understand me.

Thanks you again!

Ask the chiro to show you proof that he significantly reduced someone's curves. If he has done miracles then he should have proof.

flerc
02-05-2013, 07:16 PM
a known guy come to me and say: Hey, i just finished my chiropractor's treatment and my curves went down from 60 degrees to 20 degrees

Thanks you again!

When did you know this guy? How much time was needed to reduce 40º? Are you sure he was 60º and not 30? Why are you sure he is saying you the true? Is he an adult?.. if you were talking about something behind science domain.. who knows, but is not the case of chiropractic. And I really know good chiropractors.

Spyros
02-05-2013, 07:28 PM
Ask the chiro to show you proof that he significantly reduced someone's curves. If he has done miracles then he should have proof.

If I decide to finally go to that Chiropractor, I'll ask for proofs for sure. Thanks Sharon!


When did you know this guy? How much time was needed to reduce 40º? Are you sure he was 60º and not 30? Why are you sure he is saying you the true? Is he an adult?.. if you were talking about something behind science domain.. who knows, but is not the case of chiropractic. And I really know good chiropractors.

Probably you misunderstood there my point Flerc. It was an example about the case that if after some years after i done with the scoliosis surgery...
I dont know if that possible but "lets say..."

flerc
02-05-2013, 07:53 PM
yes I have read it again.. how much do you think this man may reduce your curve?

flerc
02-05-2013, 08:01 PM
I'll tell you what I do when I know about some extrordinary professional. I give them my telephone and email so they can give it to the patients, so they may tell me how much amazing was the miracle he did. If nobody never call me, I'm sure is a fraud.

Spyros
02-05-2013, 08:03 PM
yes I have read it again.. how much do you think this man may reduce your curve?

I dont know. When we talked on phone he told me that he is able to reduce the curves, but he doesn t know if after treatment will be still needed surgery. So he mentions, to give me a final answer he needs to see me for a week to examine my body, my flexibility now, my curves, my torsion and some other things.

flerc
02-05-2013, 08:28 PM
And why he need 2500 euros to do that?

Pooka1
02-05-2013, 08:31 PM
I dont know. When we talked on phone he told me that he is able to reduce the curves, but he doesn t know if after treatment will be still needed surgery. So he mentions, to give me a final answer he needs to see me for a week to examine my body, my flexibility now, my curves, my torsion and some other things.

Tell him you want him to assess you for free. Then get a guarantee if he says he can reduce your curves permanently. Don't accept any reduction because many treatments can temporarily reduce curves. Even standing in an unusual way can reduce curves.

Remember, chiros have no training to be treating scoliosis.

titaniumed
02-05-2013, 11:07 PM
I started Chiropractic in 1986 and had pretty good results for pain control. Through the years we looked at my curves after trying bracing, and after various therapy’s with x-rays. I had a slight reduction after wearing my brace but it didn’t hold. You see, that’s the trick. Park a truck on your rib hump and you will staighten out for sure, but it just wont hold. I also tried electostim on the weak muscles and didn’t have ANY luck with that....

I have been to about 12 different Chiros through the years, each with their different techniques and moves. From the start they all told me that one day I would need surgery, and I probably had twin 55’s in 1986. When I hit my 40’s things ended up getting worse and the sciatica started. Chiro is useless for sciatica, absolutely useless. I had 4 herniated lumbar discs and degeneration, so you can see why it wouldn’t work. Swimming in the ocean helped and it was free.

Chiropractic adjustments are worth about $100 per session....Vax-D is worth about $200 and that includes the works....For $500 day, I would fly to Switzerland and party like a rock star. I’m getting too old for that, but you know what I’m saying.

Chances are that you can last for quite some time depending on pain, but if your curve keeps progressing, you have to be careful since large curves mean trickier surgeries.... and you can have lung and heart problems....

Beware of people promising miracles....save your money.

I’m interested in knowing exactly what your surgeon said......Did he give you a timeframe for surgery?

Ed

rohrer01
02-06-2013, 08:56 AM
Spyros,
I've also been to many, many chiros. I've either had no results or, as in the last case, a worsening of my curve and increased pain. The only "relief" I've ever had from a chiro is some temporary relief of neck pain. But it always comes back. The thing with chiros is that they keep you coming back. They will work on your for years promising that these things take time. You are young, your curve is pretty big. If you are in pain, I wouldn't waste my time or money on a chiro. Like Pooka1 mentioned there isn't any evidence that chiropractic helps scoliosis. However, I have never heard one say that they couldn't help. They all claim to be able to help scoliosis, at least from my experience. I know it's difficult to accept. But how are you going to feel if you spend all that money and are told he can't help you? Or worse, yet, says he can and keeps juicing you for more money and doesn't help? I'm not saying that chiropractors are dishonest. They are trained to really believe that they can help scoliosis. There is just no documented proof of that. The original chiropractic theory is that ALL diseases come from subluxations. We know that not to be true. The older you are when you have surgery, the more complex the surgery will become and the healing time increases. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm only telling you what I know. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

As far as this guy working "miracles", it would be a miracle if he could cure a curve that size. On the positive note, there are individuals who, while not curing their scoliosis, have made changes in their curves through strict exercise regimens. You may be happy with a change if it alleviates pain, so if that's what you are interested in I would suggest talking to some of them.

Take Care.

loves to skate
02-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Welcome to the forum. I tried Chiropractic care to the tune of $5000.00 USD with minimal temporary relief of pain. I wish I had known about this forum before I spent all of my hard earned money on temporary relief. If you are wealthy, spend your money on Chiropractic, but it really would be a waste of money in my opinion.
Sally

mariaf
02-06-2013, 01:54 PM
There has never been a single published study showing that chiropractic can do anything to eliminate the need for scoliosis surgery.

I agree with everything others have said, and think the above sums it up in a nutshell.

Spyros
02-06-2013, 02:04 PM
Thanks a lot guys! You helped me a lot and you saved my money as well!

I have already scheduled my scoliosis surgery for the beginning of March!!! Not specific date yet, but i have less than 1 month for that! Can't believe it! :)

ck43
02-06-2013, 07:39 PM
Dear Spyros. You don't say why are you investigating options just now. Are you in pain? Feeling short? (OH PLEASE LAUGH with me -- only one scoli kid to another would know what I am talking about).

What is it you are trying to treat? Someone began to ask you informative questions about symptoms.

You are 25 and sooooooooo vibrant. Full of oxygen, blood cells, vessels. What is your hesitation on surgery?

You do it your done, for the most part and imagine being inches taller? It is a strange experience my friend. The soap on the counter, towels ... these are my awakening, standing experiences.

I will never see a chiropractor. Not ever. He/she may be able to alleviate my pain but he can never alleviate my circumstance.

I'm in trouble right now a little bit but 20 to 30 years with little complications? Are you kidding? And passing in front of everybody either do to confidence, sports, or whatever... I stood tall and not one lover cared.

Isn't it funny that the one person who said anything was my future husband, "I could see you scoliosis" (just now).

Just remember, you are young and vibrant and have a really good chance at successful surgery. Yeh. It sucks. It totally sucks. But once I got to shower my head ... go the bathroom, had a cast on .. okay, nevermind. Once I was FREE I was free for a number of years. LOTS of them.

I think chiropractors are repeat business.

I went through surgery in the 70s. Things have so improved I think since then. I am not uptodate but I hear you don't even have to wear a cast. I bet you are pretty handsome too huh. I bet you stand pretty straight for those 60 degrees (oh how us kids can compensate). huh. Bet you are athletic too so what drives the current process?

Sorry if I am late with this message but I just came back. Scoli kids from my generation come back. I am just telling you I had a good run for 30 years. I still am but you ran into some complications. Age. and Arthritis. And problems with below and above the rod. They don't do my rods anymore.

Okay, so remember. You are 25. Have excellent blood and oxygen I presume and if not now you will. Okay? Your chances at recovery (I am not a doctor!) seem very good. If you smoke? Oh heck you can quit for a bit for maximum healing. Oh. Husband home. Yes. I have one. I went on to live a successful life.

So no at all those euros without surgery. Just my take and yee haaaaaa and current physical therapy for me. And I am not going to be in it for months either.

flerc
02-06-2013, 07:41 PM
Thanks a lot guys! You helped me a lot and you saved my money as well!

I have already scheduled my scoliosis surgery for the beginning of March!!! Not specific date yet, but i have less than 1 month for that! Can't believe it! :)

Wov!! What a vertiginous change of direction! I wrote something about manipulation and other issues, but of course it would be useless now for you.
I hope surgery will be good for you.. also I hope you understand I never figured you was deciding between visiting that chiropractor and fusion.

Good luck.

Pooka1
02-06-2013, 07:59 PM
also I hope you understand I never figured you was deciding between visiting that chiropractor and fusion.

That's not really a choice. Only surgery works for people who are surgical.

flerc
02-06-2013, 08:13 PM
That's not really a choice. Only surgery works for people who are surgical.

And who knows who are surgical? You?

Spyros
02-07-2013, 07:52 AM
Thanks for your long answer ck43!


Dear Spyros. You don't say why are you investigating options just now. Are you in pain? Feeling short? (OH PLEASE LAUGH with me -- only one scoli kid to another would know what I am talking about).

Yes, i am in pain. I m not even thinking about if i m short. I m 1.81 cm tall.


You are 25 and sooooooooo vibrant. Full of oxygen, blood cells, vessels. What is your hesitation on surgery?

I dont have hesitation or fear about surgery, I just wanna check all available treatments before surgery.


Just remember, you are young and vibrant and have a really good chance at successful surgery. Yeh. It sucks. It totally sucks. But once I got to shower my head ... go the bathroom, had a cast on .. okay, nevermind. Once I was FREE I was free for a number of years. LOTS of them.

Yes i can see your pain there. I used to have some kind of cast also at age of 17 years old. But i think it made it even worse.


I think chiropractors are repeat business.

+1. And i dont have time to loose staying in another country alone (actually with my future wife) spending a lot of money and finally i got not proper results.


I went through surgery in the 70s. Things have so improved I think since then. I am not uptodate but I hear you don't even have to wear a cast. I bet you are pretty handsome too huh. I bet you stand pretty straight for those 60 degrees (oh how us kids can compensate). huh. Bet you are athletic too so what drives the current process?

Yes i stand very straight even with that 68 degrees (thanks to S type :P). And i am very athletic. I m 1.81cm, 63 kilos and i love sporting. But I get tired very very easily and i feel the pain in my back too.


Okay, so remember. You are 25. Have excellent blood and oxygen I presume and if not now you will. Okay? Your chances at recovery (I am not a doctor!) seem very good. If you smoke? Oh heck you can quit for a bit for maximum healing. Oh. Husband home. Yes. I have one. I went on to live a successful life.

I dont smoke or drink alcohol (well.. just a bit when i m going out). But my breath is reduce already to 75% for my age/high/kilos, and i cant let it drop more. Its too dangerous.
Finally, as my doctor told me, I do have good chances for a successful surgery and recovery, cause when he saw my dynamic X-rays, he observed that i have lot of flexibility on my spine!

Pooka1
02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
And who knows who are surgical? You?

No not me of course. Surgeons know.

There is no evidence any conservative treatment has prevented any surgery. That includes people like Hawes because she may not have progressed anyway. Or maybe only increasing the distance between sternum and spine is the only conservative treatment that works, at least temporarily. Who knows. The point is proving conservative therapy avoids surgery is an uphill battle to say the least.

Spyros
02-07-2013, 08:08 AM
And who knows who are surgical? You?

Actually flerc, before my meeting with my surgeon (2 months ago), I was able to understand that I needed surgery for sure. I didnt know my degrees and i had not been in a doctor for my spine for about 8 years. I did a long of research through internet and i found that the patients who have scoliosis > than 45* the surgery is a must. My body was saying to me that i have scolios > 50*, Therefore, i just understood that I need surgery and i book an appointment with my surgeon (to another city) right away.

Spyros
02-07-2013, 08:29 AM
I started Chiropractic in 1986 and had pretty good results for pain control. Through the years we looked at my curves after trying bracing, and after various therapy’s with x-rays. I had a slight reduction after wearing my brace but it didn’t hold. You see, that’s the trick. Park a truck on your rib hump and you will staighten out for sure, but it just wont hold. I also tried electostim on the weak muscles and didn’t have ANY luck with that....

I have been to about 12 different Chiros through the years, each with their different techniques and moves. From the start they all told me that one day I would need surgery, and I probably had twin 55’s in 1986. When I hit my 40’s things ended up getting worse and the sciatica started. Chiro is useless for sciatica, absolutely useless. I had 4 herniated lumbar discs and degeneration, so you can see why it wouldn’t work. Swimming in the ocean helped and it was free.

Chiropractic adjustments are worth about $100 per session....Vax-D is worth about $200 and that includes the works....For $500 day, I would fly to Switzerland and party like a rock star. I’m getting too old for that, but you know what I’m saying.

Chances are that you can last for quite some time depending on pain, but if your curve keeps progressing, you have to be careful since large curves mean trickier surgeries.... and you can have lung and heart problems....

Beware of people promising miracles....save your money.

I’m interested in knowing exactly what your surgeon said......Did he give you a timeframe for surgery?

Ed

Thanks Ed for sharing your story to me and i feel sorry for you for what you been through all these years.

2500 euro includes some X-rays (he want his own).

Now about my surgeon, I met him 2 months ago and though the x-rays, that got the same day, he ended up i have 68* top and 48* bot and i have lot of flexibility on my spine. Thus, i have even more possibilities for a successful surgery and recovery. And we book my surgery date for the beginning of March. These days i m waiting a call back for the specific date of surgery!

flerc
02-07-2013, 09:15 AM
No not me of course. Surgeons know.

There is no evidence any conservative treatment has prevented any surgery.

There is a great difference between evidence and known/published cases and anyway, if surgeons knows that as you say, it would be really very simple. Even it would be unnecessary to see a surgeon to know it. They say that every curve above 50° need surgery. How you may be so sure they are right?

Pooka1
02-07-2013, 10:08 AM
They say that every curve above 50° need surgery.

Who says this? I have never seen anyone who knows what they are talking about say this.

What about the curves in adults that have hung at about 50* of decades? There are 2-3 examples in this forum of that. Do those need surgery if no pain?

I think you are generalizing the observation that GROWING CHILDREN with curves > 50* almost always need surgery to the entire set of patients of any age and any condition. You can't do that.

flerc
02-07-2013, 10:28 AM
I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying surgeons says that and you are absolutly sure they are right in all what they says.
Certainly many of them talk about >45° as Spyros found. As he did, you may found tons of sites in the net saying that and of course, maybe not in a direct way but it was written by surgeons.

titaniumed
02-07-2013, 09:18 PM
Thanks Ed for sharing your story to me and i feel sorry for you for what you been through all these years.


You know that it doesn’t bother me. I think back about all the pain and hardship I went through and since its in the past, thats a good thing. I was fortunate that I was able to hang in there so long. Scoliosis changes our lives, our direction, our paths......I have adapted and don’t have any mental hang-ups with scoliosis and I’m just glad to be alive and functioning just fine.

Are you prepared for surgery? We never are, but had to ask.

Do you know what levels he will fuse? Did he show you where the cuts were going to be?

Do you live with your parents or have a support team of close relatives or friends that will help out?

Do you have any x-rays you could post here? Would love to see them....

Are you in any pain?

Ed

Spyros
02-08-2013, 07:00 AM
You know that it doesn’t bother me. I think back about all the pain and hardship I went through and since its in the past, thats a good thing. I was fortunate that I was able to hang in there so long. Scoliosis changes our lives, our direction, our paths......I have adapted and don’t have any mental hang-ups with scoliosis and I’m just glad to be alive and functioning just fine.

Are you prepared for surgery? We never are, but had to ask.

Do you know what levels he will fuse? Did he show you where the cuts were going to be?

Do you live with your parents or have a support team of close relatives or friends that will help out?

Do you have any x-rays you could post here? Would love to see them....

Are you in any pain?

Ed

Ofc i m not ready. I dont know what to do before my surgery. If u have any advise and time i would love to hear them.

Unfortunately I have not any idea about where my fuse's level will be, neither my surgeon showed me were it going to be. Guess I would know at my pre-op day. But he told that during my surgery he will do some kind of plastic on my fusion. ( though i dont mind)

I dont live in the same house with my parents, I live with my future wife who i know that she will treat me very well :) . Also i know whenever i ask help from my parents, they would run to me regardless the time. And i have some good friends too.

I do have x-rays and i ll try to upload them later on when i ll figure out which is the best way to be clean for you, so as to watch them better.

Yes i am in pain several times per day, even when i m sitting or laying to a sofa or bed.

Thanks for the questions again!

Spyros
02-08-2013, 07:50 AM
So i took my X-rays photos on my PC's screen!

Here u can see my 5 X-rays:

1432
1430
1429
1431
1433

titaniumed
02-08-2013, 08:46 AM
Well, I have to say that you are a surgical candidate for sure.....and chiropractic will only help with pain, not straighten curves. You do have some good curves. If I were to guess, you will have a long fusion like mine T2-T4 down to L3. You need to ask this question, its important. Will surgery be from the back only or will he have to go in from the front or side?

Who is your surgeon? Did he study in the US? I ask because you want to have a “scoliosis” surgeon and not just an orthopedic surgeon. Scoliosis surgeons specialize in scoliosis, they should be the only ones doing these surgeries.

When did you find out about your scoliosis? and have you ever worn a brace?

You do realize what fusion is about correct? Once you fuse, it becomes a solid bony mass that does not bend anymore. You cannot undo this process.

Have you told your surgeon “Yes” lets do this? Did you give him the green light?

Ed

Spyros
02-08-2013, 11:11 AM
Well, I have to say that you are a surgical candidate for sure.....and chiropractic will only help with pain, not straighten curves. You do have some good curves. If I were to guess, you will have a long fusion like mine T2-T4 down to L3. You need to ask this question, its important. Will surgery be from the back only or will he have to go in from the front or side?

Who is your surgeon? Did he study in the US? I ask because you want to have a “scoliosis” surgeon and not just an orthopedic surgeon. Scoliosis surgeons specialize in scoliosis, they should be the only ones doing these surgeries.

When did you find out about your scoliosis? and have you ever worn a brace?

You do realize what fusion is about correct? Once you fuse, it becomes a solid bony mass that does not bend anymore. You cannot undo this process.

Have you told your surgeon “Yes” lets do this? Did you give him the green light?

Ed

I saw your fusion its pretty big yes. I hope i dont have to make all my back at least not the bottom one. The surgeon didnt say anything about front or side fusion and i didnt ask him.

My surgeon is Dr. Panagiotis Soukakos, he is 62 years old with a lot of experience on many medical sectors. He is professor and president at the best hospital in orthopedic. Is one of the best (if not the best) orthopedist in Greece who has been at the head of any important and difficult surgery. He has specialize in many things. Such as scoliosis (seminars and classes in US), welding ends (he was the first one in Greece) and many others. He is making lot of speeches, which many doctors from different countries coming just for that reason. and many things yet that dont come on my mind.

I found out about my scoliosis when i was 15 years old. Then i was going to an P.T. for 1-2 years and i finaly ended up wearing a kind of brace for 1 year.. My doctor and p.t. here never refered a surgery. After that i just let it go and i focused on my studies and my military duties. I didnt have problems all that period of time until now...

Yes i do realize it.. the only thing comes in my mind all the time is my flexibility.

I did say yes to my surgeon. I m having surgery at the beginning of March and these days i m waiting a call from him to book the specific date of surgery. (less than 1 month!!)

flerc
02-09-2013, 08:12 AM
Wov!! What a vertiginous change of direction! I wrote something about manipulation and other issues, but of course it would be useless now for you.
I hope surgery will be good for you.. also I hope you understand I never figured you was deciding between visiting that chiropractor and fusion.

Good luck.

Spyros, I wrote that because I felt something bad because if I would have realized you was only considering those 2 options, I would have recommended you to visit the chiropractor. Nobody without knowing what he does (does he has a site in the net?) may be sure he is not able to reduce some significants degrees even in few sessions if your structure have some different kinds of unbalances and is not so much flexible and probabbly it would have make you feel better and encouraged to add some actions in your life thinking in your improved back. I'm suspicious of expensive professional, but who knows..
Of course in the worst case, you would have not those 10000E, but yes the option of surgery as now, but of course only you may know all the facts leading you to take this important decision.
Sincerely I hope it will be the best for you.

titaniumed
02-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Yes, this was a quick change of direction....and making a surgical decision is a critical decision.

Patients need to be informed and should know what to expect......many are surprised and possibly let down when something happens they don’t expect. Things can happen that are beyond even the best of surgeons, it can be beyond their control as the body is complicated and we are all different.

I guess one of the main things we worry about is our flexibility, or lack of. I have a thread in my signature with photos of me that show some of the ways I can bend and twist. I consider myself lucky.....some are not as fortunate as me. For former brace wearers, at least we know or have some idea what we can expect. Each lumbar level articulates approx 20 degrees which is quite a bit of movement, usually the lowest levels are spared in younger patients. These unfused levels can wear out faster sitting under a fusion mass, usually around 20 years so future revision surgery has to be expected at some point in the future.....Leaving just the lowest level L5-S1 unfused is not wise. Results are not good with this scenario.

The next thing that we worry about is the pain. It hurts. Major deformity surgery de-rotates and straightens the spine, moves all our soft tissues, muscles, ligaments, nerves etc, and can hurt pretty bad. Medications can help with this pain, but are or should be a temporary solution, the goal should be eventual termination of meds at some point to save our livers and other organs.

Recovery time also needs to be considered. Younger patients get off easier in this regard, elder patients heal slower and take longer. Full recovery in patients above age 40 takes a full year. Fusion takes a full year. Its takes this long for the bone to heal, and sometimes this doesn’t happen and our rods can break. If they do, we need another surgery.....Walking is pretty much the standard therapy, speeding up the healing process doesn’t happen by walking that much more, you don’t heal in a week because you walk 10 miles on the 7th day. You wont make it, and it can cause more damage. It’s a slow steady process, with just a little more effort each day.

Understanding and having the will and drive for success is needed....having a positive attitude is a must, and after commitment, never second guess or look back and think, “I shouldn’t have done it”. Once its done, its done, an irreversible process......All we can do is do the best we can with what we have and focus on the prize, which is eventual recovery, in time, no matter what it takes.

Spyros, you have questions.....go ahead and ask them and we will answer.

Ed

jrnyc
02-09-2013, 11:49 AM
Spyros, i think it would be good to get all the info you can
from your surgeon...it is important to know exactly where the
fusion will be...where it will start and end...
best to know ahead of time to be able to be as prepared as possible,
and have a better idea of what to expect...
just a suggestion...

jess

Spyros
02-09-2013, 03:55 PM
Well, my decision was already taken from the time that i book an appointment with my surgeon (3 months ago). When i heard that chiropractors might be a solution, I started looking some things about them.. but i didnt find good results.

I know my body and the situation i am right now and the surgery is the only solution.

Aaa, i forgot to mention that I went to a chiropractor here where i live, though not a top chiropractor but he is good.. And after he saw me and watched my x-rays, he told me that: "None chiropractor can do anything about your case, cause you have torsion on your spinal and its like mechanical (if i remember right) scoliosis. If you had just the S type on your spinal it the chiropractor could correct you. So the surgery is the only solution."

Ed & Jess, I understand the suggestion that i must to know where the fusion will exactly be. But now its difficult to know.. Cause i live 450 km away from my surgeon and its difficult to examine me again or watch my x-rays. What i can do about that? Phone him and tell him what? "Hey, i m Spyros who ...... "
I will probably learn about my fusion on my pre-op date. Or, do you have any other suggestion?

I have some questions about the whole thing, but i ll need to think about them and write all my questions together.

jrnyc
02-09-2013, 05:53 PM
i am not questioning your decision...
just suggesting the more you learn ahead of time,
the better prepared you can be for what you will need help
with after surgery...
i am sure your surgeon must have a receptionist and nurses...
that is how things work here in surgeons' offices here in the States...
perhaps you could get some questions answered that way...
by e mailing those people...
and i am sure the surgeon expects you to have questions...
all patients do with such a big surgery...

i know you have given this a lot of thought and are
proceeding after much consideration and advice from
the right doctors and professionals...
just try to find out as much as you can so you will know what
to plan for and expect.

wishing you the best...
jess

Spyros
02-09-2013, 10:24 PM
Well, may you people have some questions to email them to my surgeon and get answers? some people here in forum are more experienced than me and they already were through all that.. So they know what exactly i should ask from my surgeon.

Some questions that i have until now are:

- From where my fusion will start and will end?
- Will I get fusion only on my back or side and front too?
- When I ll be able to travel to my home town (450 km) after the surgery done? by airplane? or by car and ferry? (I have a family house to stay for the days until i m allowed to travel back home)
- What things shall I bring with me for the days in clinic?
- What clothes?
- When my pre-op appointment will be, and what examines will take place?
- When i have to give blood if i needed during surgery?

These are the questions that come to my mind right now. Please add more questions that i need to know before surgery.

Things I know until now are:

- The material of rods, screws etc. will be titanium.
- Cost of surgery (doctors/materials/clinic..)
- I can choose rooms between 'single' (just me in room), 'double' (with 1 more patient in same room), 'triple' (with 2 more patients in same rooms).

""" If i forgot something, I ll add it here or by new reply """

Thanks,

Spyros

rkochis
02-10-2013, 10:52 AM
Since our curves are about the same when I last had them measured, I thought I would share some thoughts and experience. I was diagnosed as a teenager but did not have any serious symptoms until I turned 60 (6 years ago). I started having low back and sciatic discomfort. That started a long journey visiting my primary care, PT's, Chiros, Orthos. I wasn't having any success. Finally, a physiatrist recommended to have my legs and spine x-rayed to establish a baseline. Much to my surprise, I had 68T, 42 L curves, a 3/4 " short left leg and a twisted pelvis. The reason I am mentioning this is to see if you have been measured for a short leg. Once I knew my measurements, I was fitted for a heel lift. I wanted a square foundation before I started a long term physical therapy program. I have worn the lift and have been doing a PT program for 3 years. I never contemplated surgery.

What if you (like me) have a significant short leg.....you get the surgery to straighten your spine but you still have an alignment problem. I am no expert but I believe that will end up with post surgery pain issues as well. I would, at the minimum, discuss this issue with your doctor.
Here's hoping you do not have a short leg.

Spyros
02-10-2013, 03:47 PM
Since our curves are about the same when I last had them measured, I thought I would share some thoughts and experience. I was diagnosed as a teenager but did not have any serious symptoms until I turned 60 (6 years ago). I started having low back and sciatic discomfort. That started a long journey visiting my primary care, PT's, Chiros, Orthos. I wasn't having any success. Finally, a physiatrist recommended to have my legs and spine x-rayed to establish a baseline. Much to my surprise, I had 68T, 42 L curves, a 3/4 " short left leg and a twisted pelvis. The reason I am mentioning this is to see if you have been measured for a short leg. Once I knew my measurements, I was fitted for a heel lift. I wanted a square foundation before I started a long term physical therapy program. I have worn the lift and have been doing a PT program for 3 years. I never contemplated surgery.

What if you (like me) have a significant short leg.....you get the surgery to straighten your spine but you still have an alignment problem. I am no expert but I believe that will end up with post surgery pain issues as well. I would, at the minimum, discuss this issue with your doctor.
Here's hoping you do not have a short leg.

I dont think i have a shorter leg, my steps are perfect. I think if i had a issue like that i would have noticed it. But i will mention that case to my surgeon as well.

Thanks for interesting.

rkochis
02-10-2013, 08:14 PM
There are a couple measurements a qualified person can make to determine short leg. (other than an x-ray). In some cases, the scoliosis cure is caused by the short leg. It is the bodies method of staying in balance. The body gets twisted in order to keep the shoulders level and feel balanced. My point is that you may have a short leg and not know it. It is wise that you have chosen to have a discussion.

jrnyc
02-10-2013, 09:06 PM
i have a thoracic curve of 42 and a lumbar of 70...but i do
not have one leg shorter than the other...it is NOT true of everyone

good luck, Spyros..i am sure you will do well...
oh...one more question might be whether the surgeon wants you in
a brace after surgery, just to keep you safe for a while.

jess

Pooka1
02-10-2013, 11:07 PM
i have a thoracic curve of 42 and a lumbar of 70...but i do
not have one leg shorter than the other...it is NOT true of everyone

I am wondering if an orthopedic surgeon determined through radiographs if she really has a shorter leg or if it was just a physiatrist, whatever that is, claiming it despite no objective medical findings. I would not believe it unless an experienced orthopedic surgeon said it.

titaniumed
02-10-2013, 11:20 PM
Spyros

I had to google map Corfu and see that its and island.....I am guessing you are having your operation in Athens? A flight would happen quickly.....

I would call and get a e-mail address for asking questions....

Ask about autograft and allograft. Where will the fusion material come from? They used to get material from the pelvis but many patients complained of pain.

Ask how long he thinks recovery will be?

Ed

rohrer01
02-11-2013, 12:22 AM
I am wondering if an orthopedic surgeon determined through radiographs if she really has a shorter leg or if it was just a physiatrist, whatever that is, claiming it despite no objective medical findings. I would not believe it unless an experienced orthopedic surgeon said it.

Physiatrists are MD's that specialize in physical medicine and rehabilitation. Here is the definition according to this website:

http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/pages/physiatrist.aspx

"What is a Physiatrist?
Page Content
Physiatrists, or rehabilitation physicians, are nerve, muscle, and bone experts who treat injuries or illnesses that affect how you move
Rehabilitation physicians are medical doctors who have completed training in the medical specialty of physical medicine and rehabilitation (PM&R). Specifically, rehabilitation physicians:

•Diagnose and treat pain
•Restore maximum function lost through injury, illness or disabling conditions
•Treat the whole person, not just the problem area
•Lead a team of medical professionals
•Provide non-surgical treatments
•Explain your medical problems and treatment/prevention plan
The job of a rehabilitation physician is to treat any disability resulting from disease or injury, from sore shoulders to spinal cord injuries. The focus is on the development of a comprehensive program for putting the pieces of a person's life back together after injury or disease – without surgery.

Rehabilitation physicians take the time needed to accurately pinpoint the source of an ailment. They then design a treatment plan that can be carried out by the patients themselves or with the help of the rehabilitation physician’s medical team. This medical team might include other physicians and health professionals, such as neurologists, orthopedic surgeons, and physical therapists. By providing an appropriate treatment plan, rehabilitation physicians help patients stay as active as possible at any age. Their broad medical expertise allows them to treat disabling conditions throughout a person’s lifetime."

I see a physiatrist who has referred me for a surgical consult for my scoliosis. I have what he calls impingement syndrome of the right scapula. It's caused a rotator cuff injury because of the scoliosis. It can't be repaired unless the impinged scapula is brought back into normal alignment by straightening the spine. Otherwise, it will continue to be reinjured. We'll see what the surgeon says this time. Anyway, that's just my little bit of info on physiatrists that I've found. These docs have been THE most concerned and helpful to try to figure things out and manage my pain. Mine does a lot of muscle work via trigger point injections, botox, and some nerve blocks. He referrs me for the epidurals and PT for muscle massage. Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation is a whole subspecialty in our Neurosciences department at the hospital.

Pooka1
02-11-2013, 07:12 AM
Rohrer, thanks for that. I learned something.

Good that they are medical doctors.

Spyros
02-11-2013, 07:28 AM
Ed, Yes i m having my operation in Athens, thats why i wanna ask about when i ll be able to flight back home.




Ask about autograft and allograft. Where will the fusion material come from? They used to get material from the pelvis but many patients complained of pain.

I dont understand anything from what you just said :P

What exactly is autograft and what allograft? can you explain the differences?

The fusion material? You mean the titanium?

What material they get from the pelvis?

I'm confused :/

flerc
02-11-2013, 09:03 AM
short left leg and a twisted pelvis.


Yes, them are some of the unbalances (probably the last because the first) doing the structure more weak in the battle against the gravity force. It's a matter of physics, so the only question is how much significative may be. Differences or anormalities in Feet arches also may provoke the same effect than short leg. I believe the worst of all is the slope of the line from coccyx to head, but probably also surgery solve it..
All of this problems may be tested al least up to some level at home, but I beleive the best is to see an osteopath.



I wanted a square foundation before I started a long term physical therapy program.


What kind of program is this?

rkochis
02-11-2013, 09:50 AM
The PT program I do daily (after much research trial and error) is made up of aerobic (treadmill), focused light weight training (dumbbells), symmetrical deep breathing stretches, and a isometric/yoga program. All movements incorporate RAB Schroth breathing. I hope to get re-measured this year to see if my curves have changed. I can absolutely state that my body has changed (both in appearance and conditioning).
I will have my annual physical on Mar 1 and hope to get a referral to a non surgical adult scoliosis specialist to review and hopefully endorse my program.

flerc
02-11-2013, 10:40 AM
Physiatrists are MD's that specialize in physical medicine and rehabilitation. Here is the definition according to this website:

http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/pages/physiatrist.aspx

[COLOR="#800080"]"What is a Physiatrist?
Page Content
Physiatrists, or rehabilitation physicians, are nerve, muscle, and bone experts who treat injuries or illnesses that affect how you move
Rehabilitation physicians are medical doctors who have completed training in the medical specialty of physical medicine and rehabilitation (PM&R). Specifically, rehabilitation physicians:


In fact Physiatry or kinesiology is not strictly limited to rehabilitation physicians knowledge/procedures. Is something incredible vast, with hundreds of different specializations focused in absolutely different goals and principles . What have to do Vojta with Sohier? Only one example over literaly thousands possibles.
But Physiatry not include all western disciplines as Chiropraxia.. also not Osteopathy, the wisest of all those disciplines for me.

flerc
02-11-2013, 01:27 PM
The PT program I do daily (after much research trial and error) is made up of aerobic (treadmill), focused light weight training (dumbbells), symmetrical deep breathing stretches, and a isometric/yoga program. All movements incorporate RAB Schroth breathing. I hope to get re-measured this year to see if my curves have changed. I can absolutely state that my body has changed (both in appearance and conditioning).
I will have my annual physical on Mar 1 and hope to get a referral to a non surgical adult scoliosis specialist to review and hopefully endorse my program.

It sounds great even I'm not sure to understand at all the goal of that combination. Did you considered the Spinecor for adults? I'm almost sure that for someone looking for reduce some degrees is a must.

Pooka1
02-11-2013, 02:51 PM
a non surgical adult scoliosis specialist

This doesn't exist to my knowledge. Orthopedics is a surgical specialty. Maybe Linda or someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

JenniferG
02-11-2013, 03:53 PM
I dont understand anything from what you just said :P

What exactly is autograft and what allograft? can you explain the differences?

The fusion material? You mean the titanium?

What material they get from the pelvis?

I'm confused :/[/QUOTE]


Hi Spyros,

The fusion material can be a mixture of donated bone (allograft,) your own bone (autograft) and BMP, (a bio product that helps bone grow quickly.) I had all three. The autograft was bone taken from my spine from osteotomies. But sometimes, if they can't get enough of your bone from the spine, they take it from the back of your pelvis. This can cause soreness down the track in some patients, so if the doctor can avoid this, he probably will. To the best of my knowledge, the bone is crushed and mixed with the BMP and the mixture is laid along your spine which then fuses to your spine, making your spine rigid. Others may be able to elaborate on that.

Spyros
02-11-2013, 04:29 PM
Hi Spyros,

The fusion material can be a mixture of donated bone (allograft,) your own bone (autograft) and BMP, (a bio product that helps bone grow quickly.) I had all three. The autograft was bone taken from my spine from osteotomies. But sometimes, if they can't get enough of your bone from the spine, they take it from the back of your pelvis. This can cause soreness down the track in some patients, so if the doctor can avoid this, he probably will. To the best of my knowledge, the bone is crushed and mixed with the BMP and the mixture is laid along your spine which then fuses to your spine, making your spine rigid. Others may be able to elaborate on that.

Thanks Jennifer!

Now seems i understood the difference between these. But I still dont understand why they need a fusion material (bone)?

Pooka1
02-11-2013, 05:09 PM
Thanks Jennifer!

Now seems i understood the difference between these. But I still dont understand why they need a fusion material (bone)?

Spyros, the fusion is new bone growth over the vertebra. The rods only hold the spine in place until that happens. Then they are doing nothing and can be removed if necessary though it is rarely necessary.

Please look at the first .jpg in this post to see a CT scan of a fusion.

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?13989-Would-like-to-hear-from-anyone-that-had-Anterior-only-surgery&p=146814#post146814

Spyros
02-11-2013, 06:31 PM
Spyros, the fusion is new bone growth over the vertebra. The rods only hold the spine in place until that happens. Then they are doing nothing and can be removed if necessary though it is rarely necessary.

Please look at the first .jpg in this post to see a CT scan of a fusion.

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?13989-Would-like-to-hear-from-anyone-that-had-Anterior-only-surgery&p=146814#post146814

0o Thanks for searching to old topics and find that image for me! It couldn't be better so as i understand it!

I have researched info for scoliosis surgery and i have read many many stories of other people for months.. But I wasn't able to understand it and didn't bother to ask about that.

Thanks guys!

Pooka1
02-11-2013, 06:49 PM
By the way, that is a fusion from the side so the new bone is on the front of the spine. I think you will likely be having a fusion from the back so the new bone will be on the back of your spine.

Spyros
02-11-2013, 07:35 PM
Probably only from back, yes.

I m sending an email to doctor tomorrow, to ask many things i have on my mind. I just wanna figure it out how i ll ask the thing with the fusion material :P

Btw when you say that I ll probably be in pain if they take bone from the pelvis, you mean for just a few days after surgery or a long term pain?

Pooka1
02-11-2013, 08:05 PM
Probably only from back, yes.

I m sending an email to doctor tomorrow, to ask many things i have on my mind. I just wanna figure it out how i ll ask the thing with the fusion material

Ask WHERE he will get bone from and IF he will use BMP. That will cover it.


Btw when you say that I ll probably be in pain if they take bone from the pelvis, you mean for just a few days after surgery or a long term pain?

I didn't say that but I totally agree. It is LONG TERM PAIN that never goes away in some cases. I have a friend who still had bad pain at the site of the bone harvest though she has no pain with her spine after it was fused. That is crazy to trade one pain for another.

Do NOT allow them to take bone from your hip unless the surgeon guarantees you the fusion will fail if he doesn't and maybe not even then. I was prepared to refuse this procedure with my daughters.

Good luck.

titaniumed
02-11-2013, 08:33 PM
Thanks Jen and Sharon for filling in. I get so busy at work during the week, its hard to reply.....

Spyros, Here is the question and answer page from the SRS. (Be sure to select next page at the bottom)

This will help answer some of your questions.

http://www.srs.org/patient_and_family/FAQs/surgical_treatment_for_scoliosis.htm

Ed

Spyros
02-12-2013, 07:29 AM
Thanks Ed for the helpful site.

So, in your opinion which is the best method for the fusion material to have? Autograft? Allograft? or BMP?

titaniumed
02-12-2013, 08:04 PM
That is best left up to the surgeons. I had no bone used at all on me, it was BMP and other synthetic bone cement products that I don’t know about.

As long as you fuse, I guess it doesn’t matter much. BMP is expensive and generally used on older patients and problem patients that don’t fuse.

The main goal is fusion.....that’s why you should take things easy and not lift or bend or twist. After you fuse, your good to go and jump out of airplanes, or wrestle with alligators. (smiley face)

Be prepared to take things easy for a long time.....I don’t know when your surgeon will release you for certain activities, but I took it very easy for the first 9 months. Better to be safe than sorry, you only get one chance at this.

Ed

rkochis
02-13-2013, 07:46 AM
Spiros
Since you have already scheduled your surgery, I post this in order for you to try to understand as much as you can about your condition. I attached a screenshot (hopefully it will upload) of your pelvis with horizontal lines. In my non-expert opinion, I do think you do have a short left leg. ( I am assuming the x-ray was performed in a standing position) Our x-rays look amazingly similar and our curves are about the same. By the shading on the x-ray, it also looks like there is hip rotation. (just like me) If I am correct, I believe that makes your condition a functional scoliosis. At this point, it is not that important, but I think you should confirm either way. I am pointing this out so that after your surgery you have a plan to deal with the possibility of a short leg. You may, like me, have to wear a heel lift to balance your body. Please accept this post in the spirit it was written and that is to share experiences.

Spyros
02-13-2013, 10:17 AM
Spiros
Since you have already scheduled your surgery, I post this in order for you to try to understand as much as you can about your condition. I attached a screenshot (hopefully it will upload) of your pelvis with horizontal lines. In my non-expert opinion, I do think you do have a short left leg. ( I am assuming the x-ray was performed in a standing position) Our x-rays look amazingly similar and our curves are about the same. By the shading on the x-ray, it also looks like there is hip rotation. (just like me) If I am correct, I believe that makes your condition a functional scoliosis. At this point, it is not that important, but I think you should confirm either way. I am pointing this out so that after your surgery you have a plan to deal with the possibility of a short leg. You may, like me, have to wear a heel lift to balance your body. Please accept this post in the spirit it was written and that is to share experiences.

Thanks that you made that effort for me.

I have already noticed it and i was like '0o sh1t'. But right after i checked in my original x-rays, I observed that it was wrong the shot of the photo.

Here is another photo i got which is more accuracy: 1438

You still can see a difference of 3mm or less, but I guess is nothing.. probably is my position or the x-ray or I dont have 100% perfect legs or whatever. :p

rkochis
02-13-2013, 11:27 AM
Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.

Spyros
02-13-2013, 12:45 PM
Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.

I have already asked my surgeon about that and we will check it before surgery.

Thanks rkochis!

flerc
02-13-2013, 06:54 PM
Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.

Rkochis, is your line from coccyx to head, absolutely perpendicular to the floor? Is a simple test to do at home.

Alistair
12-24-2014, 12:49 PM
Following up on this thread merely to ask if anyone (who`s never been operated) had any medium-long term benefits from chiropractors or osteopaths. I take the opportunity for wishing merry Christmas to everyone.

jrnyc
12-24-2014, 01:54 PM
nope....not me.
i tried several kinds of doctors...
including osteopath...i do not go to chiropractors...i do not
consider them real doctors qualified to treat much
that is my personal opinion, and i speak only for myself.

all that has helped me...has been botox shots in upper spine and
steroid shots in lower....especially in SI joint.
but i was given too much steroid by one doctor and had to stay
off those kinds of shots for 2 years...

nothing else i can offer you for suggestions...
exercise did help me in a way, but that was before i herniated
a disc in lower spine....those discs may heal, per doctors, but
mine has never been the same....and the least little exertion
and it will kick.

i hope you find the answers...but please be very careful going
to someone who could, potentially, do more harm than good.

jess

Alistair
12-25-2014, 12:05 PM
I know what you mean, I am definitely scared to make things worse with "ordinary" chiropractors or osteophats, but to be honest even with the most renowned ones, not to mention the cost given it would probably be a few sessions.. Browsing the net I found this one for instance http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKEf-trK-8, he seems to know what he is talking about (of course I have nothing to do with this guy don`t know who he is I am not making publicity plus I live in Europe..), I am just saying because the thread opener mentioned a specialist of the spine amongst the best around, maybe going to them could be useful.. but my gosh so many scams and unprofessional people around, sometimes I just feel we are completely alone with our curved backs, no one has answers and this trial and error just gives not-so-professional-or-spine-specialists ground for making you believe they can do what others can`t, I completely hate this, we are simply alone, over the years we have learned what works for us and our body and backs and that`s it, no goddamn help or support from anyone except the net and its forums thanks to past experiences, sometimes it`s really frustrating..

titaniumed
12-25-2014, 12:26 PM
Following up on this thread merely to ask if anyone (who`s never been operated) had any medium-long term benefits from chiropractors or osteopaths.

I have done thousands of adjustments since 1986, and for “short term” pain control it worked quite well. Long term benefits might be pain control without destroying your body (liver and kidneys} with medications, and correction of curves just wont happen....don’t believe any Chiro that says “I can correct your curves” (knowing smile) I tried.

Be careful of the hoopla that Chiropractors preach......much of it has no proof. Definition below;

I have not seen many older scolis on the forums that have done chiro for maintenance, which is surprising for me since I feel that to be able to get a quick fix is a fantastic thing. I have had many amazing visits with Chiropractors through the years and these guys kept me walking for a long time. It was at the end at age 49 with twin 70 degenerated curves that it just wasn’t working anymore. Degeneration as we age is something we cannot control and this forced me into surgery.

If you have scoliosis you need to see a scoliosis surgeon first to rule out things that Chiros have no clue about. Get permission from your scoliosis surgeon as far as chiropractic care is concerned.

Chiropractors that see surgical candidates 40 deg or higher should be forced to send these patients to qualified scoliosis surgeons. We have seen chiros with 100 degree patients promising all sorts of hoopla, and this is wrong. YOU WILL DECIDE if you want surgery or not in the end, its your decision.


hoopla[hoop-lah] Spell SyllablesExamplesWord Originnoun, Informal.
1.
bustling excitement or activity; commotion; hullabaloo; to-do.
2.
sensational publicity; ballyhoo.
3.
speech or writing intended to mislead or to obscure an issue.

Ed

titaniumed
12-25-2014, 01:30 PM
Scoliosis is frustrating but we are fortunate that we have forums now.....Decades ago we were truly alone. I thought I was the only one that had scoliosis back in 1974 and the surgeons didn’t convey much back then....and there were not many of them, that’s for sure.

I don’t feel alone anymore....and yes, its been a long road, but I hope you understand how I feel. I think the education part of it all helped me understand what was happening to me. This matters a lot, and the experience that many of us offer here is valuable in that regard......

Linda Racine posted about side planks, which is very interesting.......you might look into this...

I have to put my Santa suit on now and deliver presents.

Ed

Alistair
12-26-2014, 03:50 AM
Linda Racine posted about side planks, which is very interesting.......you might look into this...

That's interesting, I only found this WSJ article about it http://www.wsj.com/articles/study-doing-the-side-plank-reduced-spinal-curving-in-scoliosis-patients-1414443022 and to be honest reading that just a few minutes a day reduced curves in 38% of adults reminds me of one of those too-good-to-be-true claims, I bet many of us would be willing to dedicate a lot more than a few minutes a day if we knew something would make a difference, wouldn't we? As a matter of fact I tried many planks in the past when I used to exercise a lot, always found that side planks were much more painful than horizontal planks so feared that they would do more harm than good, but I may have been wrong as often what hurts turns out to be good in the long run, so I'll definitely look into it.



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I like this Ed haha

Pooka1
12-26-2014, 12:00 PM
Even chiros can get very short-term reductions. Standing funny can get you a short term reduction.

What I think all these people who are publishing PT should have to address is how any form of PT overcomes the anterior overgrowth of the spine which is what drives the curvature. Until they do we can safely assume all PT methods produce only short term results.

I wonder if this is a good or obscure journal. It may have been shopped to a better journal and been rejected. For such a small study, this article is being closely held. It is really hard to find more details. I suggest there is a reason for that.

Alistair
12-27-2014, 04:24 AM
I don't live in he US but I would have thought the Wall Street Journal had some credibility. I'll look better into this but I'm too finding it hard to read more bout this,