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burdle
07-13-2012, 05:04 AM
Can anyone advise me about Chiari. I have scoliosis and in the last year or so I have increasing symptoms of tingly hands and fingers and I often cannot swallow, particularly in the morning and in the middle of the night I wake up with a sort of blocked windpipe where I gasp to get air. My hands shake really badly and after exercise they are impossible to control.

I suffered with Superventricular tachycardia all my life and finalyl had cardiac ablation two years ago to sort it out but it was never assessed in the light of my scoliois.

I have no idea who to go for advice - I suspect my GP will look at me blankly and I don't want to go looking for problems if there are no solutions etc.

I have had an MRI recently - full spine but it did not do my neck or head even though I have a cervical curve as well as thoracic and lumbar! I don't really want another one as they are really painful to have because of the lying on back bit.

flerc
07-14-2012, 09:41 PM
There is a Filum terminae surgery. The only one non surgical method I know attempting to reduce the medullary traction (one of the causes for some people) is the craneosacral therapy http://www.osteopathie-france.net/essai/revues/apostill/166-apostill11?start=1 although I have read a good article saying that the same outcome may be achieved with the practice of Yoga.

Pooka1
07-14-2012, 10:14 PM
There is a Filum terminae surgery. The only one non surgical method I know attempting to reduce the medullary traction (one of the causes for some people) is the craneosacral therapy http://www.osteopathie-france.net/essai/revues/apostill/166-apostill11?start=1 although I have read a good article saying that the same outcome may be achieved with the practice of Yoga.

Be EXTREMELY careful with craniosacral therapy. It was invented by a D.O. but is largely done by chiros as far as I know. It is NOT medicine.

People have died.

http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/gallagher.html


The theory underlying craniosacral therapy is erroneous because the sphenoid and occipital bones (important for "cranial" practitioners) fuse by the end of adolescence, many other skull bones begin to fuse by age 25 or 30, and no scientific research has demonstrated convincingly that manual manipulation can move the individual bones of an adult human skull or that lightly touching the head has any therapeutic value [7]. Nor is there any credible evidence that "the rhythms of the craniosacral system can be felt as clearly as the rhythms of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems," as an Upledger Institute brochure claims [8]. In short, the theory and practice of cranial therapy and "correction of the meninges" have no basis in reality [9,10].



http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cranial.html


I do not believe that craniosacral therapy has any therapeutic value. Its underlying theory is false because the bones of the skull fuse by the end of adolescence and no research has ever demonstrated that manual manipulation can move the individual cranial bones [11]. Nor do I believe that "the rhythms of the craniosacral system can be felt as clearly as the rhythms of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems," as is claimed by another Upledger Institute brochure [12]. The brain does pulsate, but this is exclusively related to the cardiovascular system [13], and no relationship between brain pulsation and general health has been demonstrated.

A few years ago, three physical therapists who examined the same 12 patients diagnosed significantly different "craniosacral rates," which is the expected outcome of measuring a nonexistent phenomenon [14]. Another study compared the "craniosacral rate" measured at the head and feet of 28 adults by two examiners and found that the results were highly inconsistent [15].

In 1999, after doing a comprehensive review of published studies, the British Columbia Office of Health Technology Assessment (BCOHTA) concluded that the theory is invalid and that practitioners cannot reliably measure what they claim to be modifying. The 68-page report concludes that "there is insufficient evidence to recommend craniosacral therapy to patients, practitioners, or third party payers." [16]

In 2011, the Archives of Disease in Childhood published the results of a well-designed randomized, controlled study of 142 children ages 5-12 with cerebral palsy. About half received cranial therapy (up to six sessions) and the others were placed on a "waiting list." After six months, the researers found no difference between the treatment and no-treatment groups in gross motor function or the child's quality of life [17].

In 2002, two basic science professors at the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine concluded:

Our own and previously published findings suggest that the proposed mechanism for cranial osteopathy is invalid and that interexaminer (and, therefore, diagnostic) reliability is approximately zero. Since no properly randomized, blinded, and placebo-controlled outcome studies have been published, we conclude that cranial osteopathy should be removed from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine and from osteopathic licensing examinations [11].

I certainly agree! In fact, I believe that most practitioners of craniosacral therapy have such poor judgment that they should be delicensed.

flerc
07-15-2012, 03:15 AM
Be EXTREMELY careful with craniosacral therapy. It was invented by a D.O. but is largely done by chiros as far as I know. It is NOT medicine.

If we means as medicine only all supported by medical community and if we would suppose that only all belonging to that definition is good, the non-surgical section would not have any sense.
I never heard noone talking to take care with craneo sacral therapy.
I believed that only Osteopaths learn CS



People have died.



People may die and certainly some people died because surgery, but trying to say the same about CS therapy..
Is EXTREMELY tendentiousness and absurd to say that that man died because that therapy . You should to realize that.



http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/gallagher.html
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cranial.html


Unfortunately I lost my hard disk some months ago. I have read an article about a study measuring this rhythm before, during *and after a CS session.
lt not inspired me any kind of respect someone referring as silly what osteopaths does and knows.

Pooka1
07-15-2012, 07:48 AM
It's quackery.

flerc
07-15-2012, 12:51 PM
May be..as everything. Surgical or non surgical. A quack is what it was for people who chose a solution and not worked for them as the professional said it will work. Is the same if the solution comes from medical community or from that people announcing the end of the world.
The question is how we may know if something worked at least in one case or definitely never worked for nobody. What I do is to give my data (email..) to the professional in order that he may give it to her patients having really good results with the treatment. If nobody write or call me or simply the professional refuse to do that, I conclude that his work is a fraud. If the same happens with other professionals of the same discipline, I conclude that is enough information for me to conclude that I have not any element to believe that that treatment may work.

titaniumed
07-15-2012, 01:30 PM
Burdle

Did someone diagnose you with Chiari?

Ed

Pooka1
07-15-2012, 02:23 PM
It's quackery as much as perpetual motion machines are quackery.

flerc
07-15-2012, 03:27 PM
I might say the same if I would want about the surgery that surgeons does for Chiari. I don’t do that because I’m not trying (as you) to convince nobody about what they should to do and I don’t want to cut the hopes of nobody having a health problem.
Burdle you should to know about that official surgery. I suppose that in the surgical section you might find something.

flerc
07-15-2012, 03:40 PM
As I have said you once in a large discussion,perpetual motion idea means a violation of physics laws. Which laws are violating CS?

flerc
07-15-2012, 04:07 PM
And about the link you posted.. as I know, Sutherland, not Upledger was the first working in CS, probably the name was different and Upledger made some variations, I don’t know. As I know, Sutherland arrived to that technique because an accident, an extraordinary improvement of a patient because some pressure on the head or something like that. I never heard an Osteopath talking about talking with the inner physician or something like that..

flerc
07-15-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm not absolutely sure but I beleive that Sutherland was also a physcian..this will make him belonging to the troup of the good guys, not?

Pooka1
07-15-2012, 06:26 PM
I'm not absolutely sure but I beleive that Sutherland was also a physcian..this will make him belonging to the troup of the good guys, not?

Well it would mean he was trained at least. D.O.s have similar training to M.D. but chiros are untakable. They have no relevant training. Chiro is not a science and is based on fantasy (chiro subluxation).

Pooka1
07-15-2012, 06:46 PM
Por favor, trate de ser mucho más escéptica.

flerc
07-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Well it would mean he was trained at least. D.O.s have similar training to M.D. but chiros are untakable. They have no relevant training. Chiro is not a science and is based on fantasy (chiro subluxation).

Sorry, I don't know what means D.O. or M.D. ..
I'm not sure why, but I continuos without reading about chiropractic principles. Anyway I realy believe that could not have nothing to do with Osteopathy, so nothing to do with CS, that probably should only be used by Osteophaths

flerc
07-15-2012, 07:48 PM
Por favor, trate de ser mucho más escéptica.

Ciertamente, yo no estoy seguro acerca de nada.. fuera de eso.
Mi escepticismo no es solo acerca de lo que puede ser, sino también acerca de lo que no puede ser.

burdle
07-16-2012, 04:27 AM
Burdle

Did someone diagnose you with Chiari?

Ed

No- I have just come accross the 'condition' and am just worried. I am currently not planning to have surgery on my scoliosis but am being monitored.

flerc
07-17-2012, 10:54 AM
As I know, it may be diagnosed with an MRi.

titaniumed
07-17-2012, 10:29 PM
Well, I wouldn’t let it concern you....It makes no sense worrying about something that isn’t.

Its good that you are monitoring your curves....

Hang in there.....deep breaths now. I am a believer in HOT baths for relaxation, it’s the easiest way to get some relief.

Ed

burdle
07-18-2012, 05:52 AM
Well, I wouldn’t let it concern you....It makes no sense worrying about something that isn’t.

Its good that you are monitoring your curves....

Hang in there.....deep breaths now. I am a believer in HOT baths for relaxation, it’s the easiest way to get some relief.

Ed

I am only being monitored in the sense that I have regular xrays on my spine to for progression. So I am worryong about something that could be without knowing how to get any answers.

I have never mentioned this extra symptoms as I did not immediately connect them with scoliosis but I have not had my head and neck done in an MRI (despite a cervical curve).


I am not due to see my consultant till later in the year - i just see someone in the interim for pain management.


I have found that with scoliosis you have to do all the work yourself- its no good waiting for someone to ask you if you have symptoms etc.

burdle
07-18-2012, 05:54 AM
Well, I wouldn’t let it concern you....It makes no sense worrying about something that isn’t.

Its good that you are monitoring your curves....

Hang in there.....deep breaths now. I am a believer in HOT baths for relaxation, it’s the easiest way to get some relief.

Ed

I am only being monitored in the sense that I have regular xrays on my spine to for progression. So I am worryong about something that could be without knowing how to get any answers.

I have never mentioned this extra symptoms as I did not immediately connect them with scoliosis but I have not had my head and neck done in an MRI (despite a cervical curve).


I am not due to see my consultant till later in the year - i just see someone in the interim for pain management.


I have found that with scoliosis you have to do all the work yourself- its no good waiting for someone to ask you if you have symptoms etc.

flerc
07-18-2012, 11:55 AM
I have found that with scoliosis you have to do all the work yourself-

Something really hard..
I have heard about other diseases with similar symptoms, but it seems that Drs. only give them a name.. anyway I believe that a neurosurgeon (not only a neurologist, not only a surgeon) may help you to know the name of your problem and it may be the beginning of a solution.