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YB1125
05-29-2012, 04:20 PM
I have been recommended this book "You can Heal your life" by Louise L. Hay. I actually purchased it a couple of years ago and never read it.. till now.

This is a healing book and refers to all kinds of different illnesses and diseases. It says on it's cover " The thoughts we think and the words we speak create our experiences", She says if we are willing to do the mental work almost anything can be healed. It's a spiritual self improvement kind of a book. I have to agree, as I mentioned in this forum before, I believe Scoliosis is a mind body and soul issue.

A couple of months ago I was recommended by an interesting lady I met to have therapy sessions for my Scoliosis, this spiritual woman thought it would be a very important step before going on the surgeon table, she said my scoliosis stems from a much deeper place and I need to do some healing first, clearing and cleansing within myself. She said the surgery results will be a lot better that way. I needed to dig deep inside to understand why I chose to have a surgery and why do I have Scoliosis? A question I have asked myself for a long time.

There is actually a dictionary towards the end of book that lists different illnesses and diseases, the Cause for them is listed as well. I found there "Spine Curvature/Scoliosis" and read the cause for it, which didn't make any sense to me. Till I had an interesting conversation with my girlfriend's boyfriend about the surgery. Her boyfriend is a business man who have opened businesses around the world, he is still in his 20th, he even wrote 2 spiritual/self improvement kind of books, he is an amazing person for many reasons. He broke his leg recently and was in a wheel chair as we were talking. He was recommended after the accident a surgery, a rod will be placed in his leg. He refused the surgery and chose in natural healing for his leg, though it wasn't easy and very painful at first. He couldn't understand how I could allow rods in my own body.

We started talking about the scoliosis surgery, he wanted to understand the deep reason behind things, why I wanted to have surgery and the root to my problem. He knows how to dig deep, so we started analyzing the issue. I am an aware person for the most part so maybe that helped in the process of unlocking the safe. First we started with the surface problems and reasons for surgery, than we went deeper and deeper into the issue itself. In order for it to work, I could hide nothing and had to open up and tell my deepest deepest secrets. It was like peeling an artichoke, till you get to the heart. When we got to the heart, we ended up with one cause that described my underline problem.

Right away I remembered the book "you can heal your life" and it's written cause to my physical problem, Scoliosis. I was amazed the book and my 'healing session' with my girlfriend's boyfriend ended up with the same conclusion, same exact sentence. This is when I started reading the book for the first time, I thought I would give it a chance and I found it to be an amazing book, it helped me letting go of a lot of things and understanding the flow of life, so I let go of things and find healing within myself. It is a real healing book. I am still in the beginning of it. I am also gonna seek more therapy sessions.

I believe the first healing session I have made(was without planning) was a couple of years ago. I had a massage therapist healer loosening up the muscles around my spine for 3 hours as I was seeking help for my pain. Without an advance planning he was somehow able to push each vertebra into place and give me a straight spine for about a minute, till it went back to its curve. Till that moment, as I believe I had scoliosis my whole life, I never knew how a straight spine feels, I was amazed of how free and flexible it felt, like something so heavy was lifted off my body for the first time, how everything felt 'right' and balanced. I cried in excitement, why wasn't I naturally granted the right to be straight? I have asked myself that question confused and angry, it took me about a year to get over it and seek constructive solutions to my problem.

It's been a healing journey ever since..

Please share with me any kind of healing stories you may have

Pooka1
05-29-2012, 04:35 PM
When we got to the heart, we ended up with one cause that described my underline issue.

What was it?


I was amazed the book and my 'healing session' with my girlfriend's boyfriend ended up with the same conclusion, same exact sentence.

What was the sentence?

I'm glad that stuff helped you.

susancook
05-29-2012, 05:17 PM
Interesting. There is a huge mind-body connection and there is "mind work" that each of us needs to do no matter how physically twisted we are. I will see if the library has the book and give it a whirl. Scoliosis, the labeling and the pain does strange things to us. No doubt you will get some people that will respond to you on this blog that their mind didn't cause the scoliosis as if it were a choice made by your evil twin. I don't think that's what you are saying. There is insight in every experience, medical or not, that we should explore. I'll follow the blog and see what others say and see if the library has the book. I too am angry that I have scoliosis. I am 65 and ready for an active and well earned retirement and then find myself in pain from "adult onset degenerative scoliosis". Why me? Wonder if there is any insight that I will gain from the book? Thanks for posting.
Susan

jrnyc
05-29-2012, 06:30 PM
i think relating scoliosis to mind and soul causes is very
dangerous...like telling people with cancer they could cure it
if they were more relaxed and spiritual...
that is just my opinion...everyone is entitled to their own...
but i think this kind of stuff is very detrimental to anyone with
any life threatening condition or illness....
it smacks of a "blame the patient" mentality...
i am sure my sisters, who do not have scoli, are no more
spiritually advanced than i am...nor did my mother's cancer have
anything to do with her spirituality...
and that is what i think of it...
oh, and i read her books, and others like it, years ago....

jess

mabeckoff
05-29-2012, 06:38 PM
i think relating scoliosis to mind and soul causes is very
dangerous...like telling people with cancer they could cure it
if they were more relaxed and spiritual...
that is just my opinion...everyone is entitled to their own...
but i think this kind of stuff is very detrimental to anyone with
any life threatening condition or illness....
it smacks of a "blame the patient" mentality...
i am sure my sisters, who do not have scoli, are no more
spiritually advanced than i am...nor did my mother's cancer have
anything to do with her spirituality...
and that is what i think of it...
oh, and i read her books, and others like it, years ago....

jess

Thank you Jess for writing down what I am feeling

Pooka1
05-29-2012, 06:42 PM
(...) and why do I have Scoliosis? A question I have asked myself for a long time.

If you have Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis, that is considered to be a genetic condition. A multifactorial, polygenetic condition.


I and give me a straight spine for about a minute,

How do you know it was straight if you didn't have a radiograph taken?

jrnyc
05-29-2012, 06:47 PM
i am going to call the scoli surgeons and tell them to shut down
shop...

jess

Pooka1
05-29-2012, 06:48 PM
i am sure my sisters, who do not have scoli, are no more spiritually advanced than i am...

And how about me? I am an imbecile at spirituality and STILL don't have scoliosis. :-)

So it seems spirituality and scoliosis are not really connected at all.

LindaRacine
05-29-2012, 07:18 PM
Please do not post stuff like this in the kid's forum. Actually, I recommend that it not be posted at all, as all it's going to do is start a war. Taking every bit of determination I have not to join the club.

Pooka1
05-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Please do not post stuff like this in the kid's forum.

Linda, this is an adult part of the forum, no?

And jump in. The water is fine!

rohrer01
05-29-2012, 07:30 PM
I, too, am very skeptical about these kinds of "healers". They give you a massage, all the while talking the "talk" putting you in a very relaxed frame of mind while they skim your pocket book. They are pro's. It's their livelihood to suck people into a false sense of being able to cure themselves by addressing "hidden" emotional problems. I'm not saying that relaxation tecniques aren't good for us. It's very beneficial to learn how to relax and massages feel very good. What I'm talking about is emptying the mind so someone else can fill it full of propaganda that benefits only them. Sorry, scoliosis is usually inherited. NOTHING we do in a spiritual sense causes us to have scoliosis. There are, of course other forms of scoliosis that can be brought on by bad body mechanics over the years, perhaps an accident, and certain medical conditions. Yes, I also believe the mind is a powerful thing. It is pretty much known that uptight people tend to have more heart disease, etc. vs. laid back people. Happy people seem to be healthier in general than pessimistic people. That's where I draw the line. I feel that I am a pretty spiritual person. I know the cause of my scoliosis - pure genetics. It runs in my family. I don't believe in faith healing. If it takes a metal rod in my back to straighten me up, then that's what I'll eventually do.

susancook
05-29-2012, 09:15 PM
i think relating scoliosis to mind and soul causes is very
dangerous...like telling people with cancer they could cure it
if they were more relaxed and spiritual...
that is just my opinion...everyone is entitled to their own...
but i think this kind of stuff is very detrimental to anyone with
any life threatening condition or illness....
it smacks of a "blame the patient" mentality...
i am sure my sisters, who do not have scoli, are no more
spiritually advanced than i am...nor did my mother's cancer have
anything to do with her spirituality...
and that is what i think of it...
oh, and i read her books, and others like it, years ago....

jess

Having not read the book, but trying to understand what she, and others that talk about in mind-body connection say, is that there is a component of all ??most, ??many conditions that do have a mind-body connection. It is not "blaming the victim or the patient", just saying that for many or most, there may be something there that could help. Reading all of the books in the world will not change my "S" scoliosis curve [nor did it cause it], it is real, but understanding my relationship to my scoliosis and how I respond to it and the pain....now that might be help useful. Just sayin'. I'm sitting at the desk having just taken one of my 3x a day Methadone, and having an ice back in my pants [next to my sciatica which is killing me right now], and looking a the possibility of an injection and then "minimal surgery" [trying to put off the big T3-S1 fusion], I'm open to looking at all modalities that could possibly decrease my pain that don't involve a surgeon. Just open to possibilies. Doesn't work for everyone, I'm just open to possibilities.... Susan

YB1125
05-29-2012, 09:15 PM
It is not about spirituality, it’s about becoming AWARE of yourself, those are two different things.
I am not asking anyone to become spiritual, it’s not about that, I am only asking to open your awareness to what is going on within you, which affects what happening around you. People who are spiritual are not necessarily are aware people. Please note the differences and listen to my words with your mind, not ears, be aware of what I am trying to accomplish here so you don’t keep busy with how you are going to attack this next. Are you really listening to my words?

I am not expecting everyone to understand or connect to this thread; I only hope that it could bring peace to the ones who choose to become more aware of their undergoing problem. I am not saying that the book will straight your spine, neither any other therapy session, but I believe if you let healing come into your life, you can find peace with your ‘problem’ and with that peace you can achieve greater things. I can tell you from my personal experience, anger and frustration leads to nowhere. We were born to live this life with scoliosis for a reason, ‘something’ needs healing, to be worked on, there is an underline cause to the problem. Sometimes healing can happen unintentionally, on it’s own without knowing, not everyone’s experiences are the same. This forum is a form of healing too, we are all seeking answers.

I believe we all have a lot of work to do, scoliosis or not, everyone have problems, big or small, we were born for a reason. Healing brings personal growth.

Why not find yourself stepping into a surgery with a mind which is more clear and aware of itself, more in peace with its physical condition, won’t that bring a better outcome? Peace is not necessarily a feeling, it can be a subconscious state too.

The Massage Therapist, who put my vertebrates into place, did it with his hands, not with his mind lol. The fact he was also a healer helped because he was able to connect to the flow of my body so it causes no harm to my spine, no magic there. When you eat with awareness you eat only what your body really needs, same way a massage therapist that his mind is a bit more aware can treat you more gently. My spine was straight for as many vertebrates as 2 human hands can put into place. Main thing was, my hip moved into place, my whole body shifted, like a surgeon can do on the surgery table, same exact twist of the vertebrates, just without opening the back.
It was the beginning of the healing (I didn’t know it was at the time) because I became aware of how a healthy body should feel. At first I couldn’t handle it with my ego driven mind, so first came anger. I even unintentionally wrecked my car that year.

In this present moment, is it wrong to search for peace? understanding? We need to make peace with our disease, the same way we make peace with an enemy. If we don’t make peace with it, let the frustration and anger, guilt, shame all go way, it will take over us, control us and mostly unable us from the ability to bring forth good things into our lives, in all areas. I have seen it happening to me.

Therapy can be done with yourself, with a book, a deep conversation with someone understanding or an outside help with someone who is good at getting to the bottom of a problem. My girlfriend’s boyfriend was a perfect unplanned fit, he was just helping me figure things out on my own, he was only leading me, I did the talking. I got to the underline of my problem on my own. He loves to help, his famous sentence is “Let’s get clear”. I won’t say he is a spiritual person, I would say he is an aware individual.

I want to hear from other members who found a way to let go, to find peace and understanding with their Scoliosis, that would be wonderful to hear any enlightening stories of self-healing.

susancook
05-29-2012, 09:27 PM
I, too, am very skeptical about these kinds of "healers". They give you a massage, all the while talking the "talk" putting you in a very relaxed frame of mind while they skim your pocket book. They are pro's. It's their livelihood to suck people into a false sense of being able to cure themselves by addressing "hidden" emotional problems. I'm not saying that relaxation tecniques aren't good for us. It's very beneficial to learn how to relax and massages feel very good. What I'm talking about is emptying the mind so someone else can fill it full of propaganda that benefits only them. Sorry, scoliosis is usually inherited. NOTHING we do in a spiritual sense causes us to have scoliosis. There are, of course other forms of scoliosis that can be brought on by bad body mechanics over the years, perhaps an accident, and certain medical conditions. Yes, I also believe the mind is a powerful thing. It is pretty much known that uptight people tend to have more heart disease, etc. vs. laid back people. Happy people seem to be healthier in general than pessimistic people. That's where I draw the line. I feel that I am a pretty spiritual person. I know the cause of my scoliosis - pure genetics. It runs in my family. I don't believe in faith healing. If it takes a metal rod in my back to straighten me up, then that's what I'll eventually do.

You make some excellent points and we all need to make sure that we are not investing money in sham cures. Your scoliosis is very real, yours from genetics and mine from aging degeneration. Neither of us "caused" it by anything that we did, as you mention above w/ rare exceptions. I bet your spiritual life has helped you to better deal w/ the pain and other aspects of scoliosis. Maybe what mind-body speaks to which all [most, never say all] of us could profit from is in how we approach the pain and deformity. How it affects our attitude and outlook on life. That's perhaps where mind-body may be helpful. I hope that everyone doesn't collectively dismiss the whole possibility that there is a mind-body connection here and that for many of us, exploring the spiritual, emotional, mind-body literature may help us deal w/ the hand that we are dealt. What do you think? Susan

Pooka1
05-29-2012, 09:40 PM
I hope that everyone doesn't collectively dismiss the whole possibility that there is a mind-body connection here and that for many of us, exploring the spiritual, emotional, mind-body literature may help us deal w/ the hand that we are dealt. What do you think? Susan

I think you are correct. Scoliosis happens due to genetic, physical, chemical, biological, hormonal, medical, etc. reasons and then people have to figure out how to react to that fact.

Where people jump the tracks is when they suggest the possibility that their scoliosis was caused by some mind-body problem or that the power of the mind can change the course of the curvature. There is not a whit of evidence for that because it crosses into magic. We do NOT yet have control over the genetics of scoliosis and all we can do is accept that.

Also, making this personal and not medical as in claiming someone has scoliosis for a non-medical reason (fate?) is not helpful. Science is the only game in town. Things happen for real physical reasons whether known or unknown and whether folks accept it or not. Reality... more than just a good idea.

jrnyc
05-29-2012, 09:54 PM
"i believe scoliosis is a mind body soul issue"
i did not write that...
and i do not believe it...

i have no anger that i have scoliosis...i never did...
i do not question "why me?" i never did...
just as easy for me to say "why not me?" so i have not had a
problem with anger about this condition in my body...
nor do i have a frustration problem with it...
i am at peace...

i absolutely read every word of what was written at the start of this
thread...there is a good reason why Linda suggested this not be
written on this forum...
and the science that folks like to talk about on this forum just went
right out the window with this thread...

jess

titaniumed
05-30-2012, 12:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCamVx4fSQ

There is a movie....and this trailer is a start....I have not read her book or seen the movie. Can you heal your life? Or can you heal your mind? Helpful material....

I was mad when I was first diagnosed...mad at my GP back when I was 10, bla, bla, bla, and realized that it was an unnecessary emotion. I realized when I was 17 that I had to learn to deal with the emotions of scoliosis and I did....the whole package, all of it. I couldn’t worry myself to death, I would worry just a tad, try to maintain, and get regular x-rays. Worrying about surgery can be heavy, but now that that’s over, I realized that the stress wasn’t worth it. Its easier once you have been there.

I learned a lot from many people, the most unfortunate. My father, who died of ALS, and reading “Tuesdays with Morrie”. A book about a professor who died of ALS....I’m no stranger to pain. I guess I just knew many people that were way worse off than me. Scoliosis isn’t that bad, really.

FDR was mad, very mad....the movie “Warm Springs” is a good movie, it shows how he sunk way down low, and built himself back up, and restored confidence in the United States during the depression. They now say it wasn’t Polio, but Guillain-Barre syndrome. He was elected President 3 times, and he couldn’t walk. He was probably our best President. I give him 1st place.

“The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself”. FDR

We should have a movie review thread!
Titaniumebert

LindaRacine
05-30-2012, 12:12 AM
Linda, this is an adult part of the forum, no?

And jump in. The water is fine!

I moved the thread. It was originally in the kid's forum.

susancook
05-30-2012, 02:01 AM
i am going to call the scoli surgeons and tell them to shut down
shop...

jess

What are you smoking, Jess?
Susan

susancook
05-30-2012, 02:10 AM
I will sign out of this discussion with this email. I thought, having read the initial email, that somehow, some of this might be related to mind-body connection literature in healing and pain control, a well respected evidence based approach in Pain Management. Seems that we are not going there, so goodbye and good luck in your discussions.
Susan

Pooka1
05-30-2012, 06:29 AM
I moved the thread. It was originally in the kid's forum.

Oh okay. I usually just look at the list of new posts and not where they are posted though I try to remember the admonition about not posting in the kid's section.

Pooka1
05-30-2012, 06:33 AM
I will sign out of this discussion with this email. I thought, having read the initial email, that somehow, some of this might be related to mind-body connection literature in healing and pain control, a well respected evidence based approach in Pain Management. Seems that we are not going there, so goodbye and good luck in your discussions.
Susan

The mind-brain-body connection is part of science and therefore real. Placebo is part of science and therefore real.

Unfortunately, folks continue to jump the tracks of reality in this issue and take it into magic territory. Being emotionally scarred by having scoliosis is a real reason. But it isn't an excuse for an intellectually honest person.

mabeckoff
05-30-2012, 09:13 AM
What are you smoking, Jess?
Susan

I agree with Jess. If we can heal our selves, what do we need surgeons for?

Jenna.KB
05-30-2012, 10:33 AM
Hi all,

I agree Jess & Melissa.

I don't believe anyone does anything to bring on scoliosis and nobody certainly asks for it! I don't believe we can heal ourselves, as I once said to a yoga instructor who thought she could correct my top curve that has now progressed to 104 degrees, if a titanium rod cannot stop my spine curving you and no amount of yoga is going to! That's not to say it might not help some with their pain but it didn't help me.
I also don't think its fair telling anyone especially children that with a positive mind and soul you can heal yourself, maybe positivity helps heal in the sense that you learn to live with scoliosis but it will not heal it.

Whilst you have to get your mind set right after being told you have scoliosis, get over any anger or upset then use your mind to deal with what may come e.g. surgery and learn how to deal with any pain the best we can but all of this I put down to PMA Positive Mental Attitude.

What's so wrong with having scoliosis I have family and friends and a loving, caring and supportive boyfriend, a lovely home and a happy job. Apart from my pain and having to make a difficult decision regarding further surgery I am happy and can cope with what's happening to my spine.

After all, as Ed says having scoliosis isn't the worst thing, we can always think of someone that is more disfortunate and/or more disabled than ourselves.

I say be happy with what we were given, keep our chins up and soldier on with a PMA.

Jenna

jrnyc
05-30-2012, 01:23 PM
what am I smoking?...
it was a joke...
i will let others decide who is the one smoking anything

and thanks for the positive and smart opinions, guys...
Jenna...so well said!
i have no problem with spirituality....
but i do not believe patients can "heal themselves" of almost
anything...that is, in my opinion, insulting to patients with awful diseases,
like cancer or leukemia...are we to believe they prefer being sick?

jess

rohrer01
05-30-2012, 04:53 PM
It is not about spirituality, it’s about becoming AWARE of yourself, those are two different things.
I am not asking anyone to become spiritual, it’s not about that, I am only asking to open your awareness to what is going on within you, which affects what happening around you. People who are spiritual are not necessarily are aware people. Please note the differences and listen to my words with your mind, not ears, be aware of what I am trying to accomplish here so you don’t keep busy with how you are going to attack this next. Are you really listening to my words?
For myself, I'm not attacking. I think coming to peace with or accepting that we have a problem is important in dealing with it and often takes the "scare" out of the pain aspect of this disease.


We were born to live this life with scoliosis for a reason, ‘something’ needs healing, to be worked on, there is an underline cause to the problem.
I have to heartily disagree with you here. No one is born to live a life with scoliosis. That is the blaming the patient part Jess was talking about. Something either went wrong with our DNA or we have another cause for the scoliosis. It is NOT "given" to us as a learning tool so that we can address problems that need healing.


I believe we all have a lot of work to do, scoliosis or not, everyone have problems, big or small, we were born for a reason.
We all know, or should know where babies come from by now. That is why we were born. This is the spiritistic part of what you are saying. Notice I didn't say spiritual.


The Massage Therapist, who put my vertebrates into place, did it with his hands, not with his mind lol. The fact he was also a healer helped because he was able to connect to the flow of my body so it causes no harm to my spine, no magic there. When you eat with awareness you eat only what your body really needs, same way a massage therapist that his mind is a bit more aware can treat you more gently. My spine was straight for as many vertebrates as 2 human hands can put into place. Main thing was, my hip moved into place, my whole body shifted, like a surgeon can do on the surgery table, same exact twist of the vertebrates, just without opening the back.It was the beginning of the healing (I didn’t know it was at the time) because I became aware of how a healthy body should feel. At first I couldn’t handle it with my ego driven mind, so first came anger. I even unintentionally wrecked my car that year.
A good massage therapist WILL know how to work with the human body, agreed. However, if you really believe what you are saying in what I put in bold, then there would be no need for surgeons. Your back was NOT manipulated the same way a surgeon would have done it. I guarantee it. Have you seen a scoliosis surgery video? How do you know that your spine was straight? I think he may have put you into a state of relaxation that eased your pain, but there is NO WAY that a spine can be straightened via massage therapy. If that were true, that's where ALL scoliosis patients would go for treatment. Who would choose major surgery over massages if they had the same effect?


In this present moment, is it wrong to search for peace? understanding? We need to make peace with our disease, the same way we make peace with an enemy. If we don’t make peace with it, let the frustration and anger, guilt, shame all go way, it will take over us, control us and mostly unable us from the ability to bring forth good things into our lives, in all areas. I have seen it happening to me.
I agree totally. Scoliosis is an enemy that we live with. Making peace or accepting that we have the condition helps us not to obsess over it. Then we are in a better place to deal with it. If we obsess about it, it stunts the other areas of our lives where we could find pleasure and happiness.


Therapy can be done with yourself, with a book, a deep conversation with someone understanding or an outside help with someone who is good at getting to the bottom of a problem. My girlfriend’s boyfriend was a perfect unplanned fit, he was just helping me figure things out on my own, he was only leading me, I did the talking. I got to the underline of my problem on my own. He loves to help, his famous sentence is “Let’s get clear”. I won’t say he is a spiritual person, I would say he is an aware individual.
I put in bold the statement that concerns me most about these "healers". Yes, they make you think you did all the talking while they lead you in the direction that they want you to go. Then you keep coming back, thinking you are getting a "healing" all the while they are bringing in the money. You still have scoliosis. You didn't get healed from that. You can go to a therapist to get the kind of healing you talk about. The only thing they can do is to teach you better coping mechanisms for your pain or anxiety related to your scoliosis.


I want to hear from other members who found a way to let go, to find peace and understanding with their Scoliosis, that would be wonderful to hear any enlightening stories of self-healing.
I'm assuming that the self-healing you are talking about is not physical healing, but mental, emotional, spiritual, etc... I'm not quite sure you are going to have many people here talk about very personal issues like that. From what I've read here, most people refer to their lives with scoliosis as their "journey" with the disease. They tell their stories of how they manage, cope, and treat this disease. I can't say that I would ever call this self-healing. The term in and of itself is very misleading. We can not heal our own scoliosis. We can accept the fact that we or our loved ones have it, but the doctor's can't even "heal" us. If we have surgery, we are left with a fusion mass for a spine. It saves lives and improves the quality of many people's lives, but it's a long way from perfect. I believe that you are touching on areas where beliefs are involved. Not everyone shares these beliefs, so you will probably only get positive feedback from those that do. I'm not at all trying to attack or argue. You just have a set of beliefs that are not shared by all, myself included. Best wishes on your journey through this process.

rohrer01
05-30-2012, 05:01 PM
Please do not post stuff like this in the kid's forum. Actually, I recommend that it not be posted at all, as all it's going to do is start a war. Taking every bit of determination I have not to join the club.

It's hard not to be baited, Linda. I'm proud of you. You have more self-control than I do. So far what I've read seems friendly enough. I haven't finished reading the thread, though.

No coldhearted arguments detected after reading through the thread.