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View Full Version : Surgery scheduled - Rotation?



ripley
12-23-2011, 08:08 PM
HI All - Just wondering, how does rotation affect you. My curves are not as bad as most of you - I have 50+ Lumbar and 35+ thoracic, but I've been told that I have a lot of rotation - 45 degrees. I progressed 10 degrees the past 1.5 years. I also have Kyphosis, lumbar Stenosis, and a Listhesis. Looking at my back, you can see the bones sticking out - rotation I think? I've read so many of your posts - some with pain - some not to much (pre-op). Just want to know if rotation causes pain? I have pain (back, top of butt, very occasionally down legs) but am wondering if I'm not toughing it out enough since my curves are not as big . I've scheduled surgery, but should I tough it out more since my curves are not as big as most of you who have gone through this? I'm 46 btw. Just don't know what to do.. second guessing I suppose.... Any thoughts appreciated....Thank you...

Mojo's Mom
12-23-2011, 08:18 PM
I have huge rotation, with an enormous hump on the left lumbar side. My curves aren't small, but rotation is a huge issue for me and may or may not contribute to the pinched nerves...I might have them without the rotation, too. Scoliosis does happen in 3D, it's never just curves, and I think most of us have noticeable rotation? I ought to post a photo of my back, yuck.

TAMZTOM
12-23-2011, 08:37 PM
HI All - Just wondering, how does rotation affect you. My curves are not as bad as most of you - I have 50+ Lumbar and 35+ thoracic, but I've been told that I have a lot of rotation - 45 degrees. I progressed 10 degrees the past 1.5 years. I also have Kyphosis, lumbar Stenosis, and a Listhesis. Looking at my back, you can see the bones sticking out - rotation I think? I've read so many of your posts - some with pain - some not to much (pre-op). Just want to know if rotation causes pain? I have pain (back, top of butt, very occasionally down legs) but am wondering if I'm not toughing it out enough since my curves are not as big . I've scheduled surgery, but should I tough it out more since my curves are not as big as most of you who have gone through this? I'm 46 btw. Just don't know what to do.. second guessing I suppose.... Any thoughts appreciated....Thank you...

The Schroth method is replete with derotational exercise. It's a tough learn on your own, unless your familiar with translated German PT language. I'm unsure how many adults use it; we've used it for 6 months on my daughter (10yrs). She's improved from 15 degrees rotation in July, to 9 degrees in October. In her SpineCor brace, she reduced to 4 degrees and can exercise at 0 degrees.
Rotation makes the curve stiffer, less amenable to lateral corrective force. Derotation for us has been a first-stage goal before focusing on direct curve reduction.

Pooka1
12-23-2011, 08:46 PM
My one kid had a very torqued around spine and was at (thoracic) 58* at the time of fusion. The rotation was the most obvious part of her scoliosis. Her identical twin had a similar curve but very little rotation. It was not obvious she had a large curve or even have scoliosis at all because of the absence of rotation.

I just want to mention that there was some reason the highly rotated kid was referred to a certain surgeon who later said her case was not straightforward. I don't know why it wasn't straightforward but my guess is the huge amount of rotation. The other kid had the same Cobb angle and the surgeon said it was straightforward. I mention that so that if you want a good cosmetic result in addition to stopping the progression, make sure you have a very experienced surgeon. I would say 90% of that rotation was removed. Our surgeon is a spine artist.

Good luck.

TAMZTOM
12-23-2011, 09:15 PM
My one kid had a very torqued around spine and was at (thoracic) 58* at the time of fusion. The rotation was the most obvious part of her scoliosis. Her identical twin had a similar curve but very little rotation. It was not obvious she had a large curve or even have scoliosis at all because of the absence of rotation.

I believe you said your identical twin only evidenced rotation when she did the Adam's test? This is the same as Tamzin; she does not exhibit any rotation when standing, etc., only on the Adams test. Amon suggested the same thing: to paraphrase, "Daughter has little rotation...but does when she does the Adams test." My confusion is whether we're talking about the same rotation? I just thought rotation was measured on the Adams test--most of the kids fail.

Pooka1
12-23-2011, 09:32 PM
I believe you said your identical twin only evidenced rotation when she did the Adam's test? This is the same as Tamzin; she does not exhibit any rotation when standing, etc., only on the Adams test. Amon suggested the same thing: to paraphrase, "Daughter has little rotation...but does when she does the Adams test." My confusion is whether we're talking about the same rotation? I just thought rotation was measured on the Adams test--most of the kids fail.

I am not convinced the Adams test measures ONLY rotation.

Since our surgeon never at any point used a scoliometer in my presence, I can't give you numbers on that. I might concede that number is referred to as "rotation." I can say both failed the Adams test big time yet when standing, only one appeared rotated at all. Huge difference standing with the same Cob angle. One obviously had highly scoliosis and the other looked normal.

TAMZTOM
12-23-2011, 09:42 PM
I am not convinced the Adams test measures ONLY rotation.
I don't know for sure Sharon. As I mentioned before, I specifically asked Andrew Mills and Mr Cole what the scoliometer measured. They said rotation only. Period. One can use a database to correlate the reading with average curves for the reading, but it measures rotation.


Since our surgeon never at any point used a scoliometer in my presence, I can't give you numbers on that. I might concede that number is referred to as "rotation." I can say both failed the Adams test big time yet when standing, only one appeared rotated at all. Huge difference standing with the same Cob angle. One obviously had highly scoliosis and the other looked normal.

As said, same with Tamzin. Doesn't look as if she has scoliosis when standing, but she had 15 degrees rotation, then 9 degrees, now 4 in-brace and 0 when exercising.

Off to bed...2:30 a.m.!!!

Confusedmom
12-30-2011, 11:51 PM
I have a lot of rotation. And my curves were similar to yours a few years ago. Specifically, I was at 55 degrees lumbar in 2005, and now it's around 80 degrees. For some unknown reason, I am not in much pain! That is what has made this decision so hard for me. However, I have decided to go through with it based on the advice of 5-6 scoliosis surgeons who tell me it's just going to continue to get worse. The curve, that is. I guess the concern is that eventually a large lumbar curve will put so much pressure on nerves that the pain will be unbearable. People also talk about heart and lung compression, but that is more for thoracic curves, I believe. However, I am starting to wonder whether a highly rotated lumbar curve affects upper organs. My ribs are totally uneven. Like I can hold my left rib cage between my thumb and forefinger at the waist and it's only about 4 inches across, where as I can't get my right rib cage between those fingers. Sorry this is a little stream-of-consciousness. I guess my main point is that it is a very difficult decision, but for me it has come down to the fact that I have continuing progression of the curve, and I need to stop it before it causes unbearable pain and while I am a "good surgical candidate." Good luck!