Good news! Finally some good news.

[Bigbluefrog]

We just got back from our 6 month check with one of the top orthopedic surgeons in the states. Our hospital now has the state of the art EOS ultra low dose radiation scanner, so less exposure to radiation.It uses 10 times less radiation than a regular x- Ray and 89%less than a CTscan of the spine.
children's hospital is proud to be one of the two in the country that has this unit.

What a blessing to be so close by to this new technology.

Other great news! Her curves were reduced from the first radiographs taken.....Yea!
top rt thoracic reduced by 5 degrees. And left lumbar reduced by 2 degrees.
When I asked what is the marginal error in measuring, Our Orthopedic stated within 3 degrees. so I don't remember who online here said it was higher, they were misinformed, it's within 3 degrees....right from the top orthopedic surgeon mouth

So happy, and she wears a Boston brace and this was after 24 hours out of brace.
Last measurement was rt th 27 now 22
Lt lumbar 27. Now 25
IN brace it's less, anyway I am happy it didn't progress and some improvement is noticed. We all left happy.

[LindaRacine]

What I hear most often quoted is 5 degrees margin of error. In truth, it could be higher than that:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.jbjs.org.uk%2Fcgi%2Freprint%2 F77-B%2F5%2F768.pdf&rct=j&q=scoliosis%20margin%20of%20error%20cobb%20observe r&ei=ovoQTf-vOo7msQPNm4ihCg&usg=AFQjCNGBn_oEiPqnioUvINfp88hTfs6SrQ&sig2=UUuaHoKgIpUdMbL12cMzEg&cad=rja

"The intraobserver variability was +9.6 degrees and the interobserver variability +11.8 degrees."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpdfs.journals.lww.com%2Fpedorthop aedics%2F1982%2F10000%2FThe_Significance_of_Roentg enographic_Measurement.5.pdf&rct=j&q=scoliosis%20margin%20of%20error%20cobb%20observe r&ei=ovoQTf-vOo7msQPNm4ihCg&usg=AFQjCNHmAYDa2dk7E-eNCljbrVn4QQ00hA&sig2=btmi111vo8M3P2CI8y3RYA&cad=rja

"The variability in measurement of the angle of curvature in scoliotic spines was estimated by having 50 anteroposterior roentgenograms read in random order twice by five orthopedic surgeons. The average error was +/-9 (+/-2 SD) on duplicate readings, with a range of +/-5[degrees] to +/-15.1[degrees] for individual orthopedists. Difficulty in reproducibly choosing the end vertebrae prior to making the angle measurment appeared to be the major source of measurement error."

[livingtwisted]

Whether or not it is within the margin of error, no progression is a good thing. Congrats!

[Bigbluefrog]

Thanks Mereha,

Linda I could give you the number to called and discuss this with our surgeon.



Truth of the matter is higher technology, state of the art equipment here, The EOS has a sharper more detailed image with less radiation. It lowers the marginal error.

so it's only 3 degrees marginal error.

Unless you research the right equipment, you may be getting old information or out of date info. It appears your information is from 1987 and 1993.....not up to date 17 years or more.

[Bigbluefrog]

You might want to goolge : EOS ultra low dose radiation scanner

I can't post links from my iPad.
It is amazing technology, and when the doctor looked at the 3d vs 2d image he can get precise measurements within 3 degrees of marginal error. So with those fact in placed
She would of improved with the newer measurements or at least stabilized....very happy about that.

the EOS ...only two in this country - Wisconsin and California.

what we have done: is wear traditional brace for borderline curves 27 degrees at time of bracing, we chose the Boston brace
16 to 20 hours a day,
Half an hour of PT everyday (schroth) for strength and flexibility
Some chiro care & massage therapy

I still believe in PT as beneficial treatment, but also follow recommended treatment from the OS with bracing.

I hope we continue with good results.....

[Bigbluefrog]

Data from a more updated scientific report on EOS this is from 2008

http://ijahsp.nova.edu/articles/vol6num2/pdf/Roush.pdf

[hdugger]

I haven't done any formal studies, but my son's measurements on the same xray are all over the map. I had one doctor measure the same xray as 12 degrees larger on the second read, and I had different doctors measure the same xray with differences of: 6 degrees, 7 degrees, and 12 degrees.

I can't imagine how I'm ever going to tell if he's progressing, staying the same, or reducing his angle :)

[mamandcrm]

Actually, there are private practices in the US that have the EOS. I am aware of one in NJ and one in VA, and there may be others. The one in NJ declined to do scans on non-patients. The one in VA was fine with it. A very reasonable cost, and will send you off with a disk for your doctor, so I was told.

[Bigbluefrog]

Actually, there are private practices in the US that have the EOS. I am aware of one in NJ and one in VA, and there may be others. The one in NJ declined to do scans on non-patients. The one in VA was fine with it. A very reasonable cost, and will send you off with a disk for your doctor, so I was told.

good news ..better technology in more places :)

IN my info it says one of two EOS units in pediatric hospitals in this country.

[Bigbluefrog]

I haven't done any formal studies, but my son's measurements on the same xray are all over the map. I had one doctor measure the same xray as 12 degrees larger on the second read, and I had different doctors measure the same xray with differences of: 6 degrees, 7 degrees, and 12 degrees.

I can't imagine how I'm ever going to tell if he's progressing, staying the same, or reducing his angle :)

that is frustrating! =(

Ours was a 3-d image from a EOS scanner, not sure if the technical name is radiograph or 3-d image.

Some of those older documents have a higher error margin, over the last decade with computer technology and digital readings... the margin of error has been significantly reduced.
Then do compare apples to apples, same doctor reading, same system, same place same position,

[Ballet Mom]

Congrats Bigbluefrog! What great news! Congrats to your daughter for wearing her brace. :-)

[skevimc]

Data from a more updated scientific report on EOS this is from 2008

http://ijahsp.nova.edu/articles/vol6num2/pdf/Roush.pdf

That article isn't about the x-ray that you're talking about.

Regardless, improving the technology could definitely improve the margin of error. And the low dose scanner is definitely a pretty cool thing. However, one of the reasons for the margin of error is that the curve can change throughout the day as well as positioning is extremely important, i.e. human error. I'd love to start seeing some studies published on this. Especially if they can use the 3-d capability and measure things like vertebral rotation. Less radiation and more information. win-win for sure.

And... great news for you and your daughter!!

[Bigbluefrog]

When we were measured in 3 D her curves were significantly less than originally thought, but to compare apples to apples he converted image to 2 d, and still recieved improvements.

I hope that by posting this, that most will see that bracing and PT works. it may not work for everyone, but it can work. I continue to pray and hope her Improvement continues.

the brace and diabetic insets are working but at a great price, bruising and discomfort.

I can't wait till it's over with.

[hdugger]

That's great news! You guys really got the big double-whammy. I'm glad she's making it through so well (and big kudos to you on that)

[scolio1964]

When we were measured in 3 D her curves were significantly less than originally thought, but to compare apples to apples he converted image to 2 d, and still recieved improvements.

I hope that by posting this, that most will see that bracing and PT works. it may not work for everyone, but it can work. I continue to pray and hope her Improvement continues.

the brace and diabetic insets are working but at a great price, bruising and discomfort.

I can't wait till it's over with.

Hello,
Your daughter is the same age as my daughter. My daughter also wears a Boston brace. She has worn it for 3 years. Her curve progressed at our last visit a month ago from 27 degrees to 36 degrees. We have been looking into the Schroth method, but the closest clinic to us (Houston) is in Arizona!! It's very frustrating. I don't know how we can do that. I have a book about the Schroth method, but it's hard to understand. Do you go to the clinic in Wisconsin for the exercises?

Has your doctor mentioned whether she has finished growing or not? How long does she wear her brace everyday? My daughter has been very compliant about wearing it, so it was very discouraging to hear that she had progressed.

Thank you!!

[scolio1964]

Sorry - another question. What are diabetic insets? I've never heard of that!

Thanks!

[Bigbluefrog]

Hello,
Your daughter is the same age as my daughter. My daughter also wears a Boston brace. She has worn it for 3 years. Her curve progressed at our last visit a month ago from 27 degrees to 36 degrees. We have been looking into the Schroth method, but the closest clinic to us (Houston) is in Arizona!! It's very frustrating. I don't know how we can do that. I have a book about the Schroth method, but it's hard to understand. Do you go to the clinic in Wisconsin for the exercises?

Has your doctor mentioned whether she has finished growing or not? How long does she wear her brace everyday? My daughter has been very compliant about wearing it, so it was very discouraging to hear that she had progressed.

Thank you!!
I am sorry to hear your daughter progressed. We went to the clinic in Steven's Point, I stayed at a hotel for one week, and we paid out of pocket. Although you can check with your insurance for coverage. We had 4 hours of PT a day. PT was broken up into 2 sessions a day. The first day she is measured, and photos are taken showing her posture, bent curve, and stance. they also measure height and arm wing span.

After one week her height was increased, and the pictures show better posture and defined muscles in her back.
We still need to do a followup week...they recommend two weeks. Amber does 1/2 hour of PT a day, sometimes an hour if she missed a day.
My dd is about 5' 9 now, and he said about 18 months after menses started, so we have had a 3 inch growth spurt since dx. She should be done growing Fall of 2011.

If you decide to go, check the references they give you...investigate to make sure it's a good fit for your family.
Most of the exercises have to do with breathing, elongating, and some traction, hanging, and massages to open areas of muscle constriction or where concave curves are.

Diabetic insets are used with an insulin pump for treatment of type 1 diabetes.
The inset is insert into the skin with a needle, its moved every two days to allow skin to heal and avoid scar tissue. The needle is for insertion of the inset and then is removed, leaving a small tube canal to deliver insulin subcutanously via pump.
The brace aggravates her inset and causes bruising.

I picked Steven's Point over another clinic local to us, because they only work with scoliosis patients....and they are known to be the best. Also our petritician recommended them, other families have benefited from PT. Good luck with your decision.

If had to do it all over again, I would still pick them.

Ambrea wears her brace 16 plus hours a day.....and I have take a break once in awhile due to the insets, so for a schooldays she usually wears it all day, take it off,do her PT, put it back on for bedtime.

I don't have her wear it for dances, or special dress up activities....sometimes you have to allow them to be teenagers.

[scolio1964]

I think it's great that your daughter has done well with the Schroth therapy. I would love it if my daughter could do it, but there's not a place near us and it's very expensive!! We would also have to wait until the summer and I really hate to wait that long. I have a book, but I don't trust myself to know what exercises she needs to be doing. It's frustrating. It shouldn't be such a struggle to get the things our kids need.

[hdugger]

I'm not certain, but I think the Schroth practioner in Palo Alto, CA will do some work long distance. You might check. Her site is:

http://www.scoliosispt.net/

[livingtwisted]

She has been very helpful for me long distance. I'm going up to see her for 4 days next month.

[hdugger]

I'd love to hear a report on the visit, Mehera. We've considered seeing her, since we have lots of relatives around there.

[livingtwisted]

I will report back. I was already thinking of going and then my sister ended up moving there last month so that pretty much sealed it. :)

[scolio1964]

She has been very helpful for me long distance. I'm going up to see her for 4 days next month.

How does she work with you long distance? I am very interested - thanks!!

[hdugger]

I will report back. I was already thinking of going and then my sister ended up moving there last month so that pretty much sealed it. :)

That was extremely thoughtful of your sister :)

[livingtwisted]

How does she work with you long distance? I am very interested - thanks!!

She reviewed my latest x-rays and photos that I took based on her specifications, we talked about pain and my general activity level, and she gave me some minor exercises to do, as well as a lot of changes to posture and habits to be aware of throughout the day. We spoke several time to be sure I understood and was doing them properly. But she has also been cautious and pretty conservative in her recommendations which I think is because she would rather be able to evaluate you in person before suggesting anything too aggressive. I don't want to speak for her, but I think in my case she knew I couldn't come up for a few months so why not get started right away and ease me into it. She's been very generous with her time and really cares that you get help, maybe because she is a scoli herself.