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titaniumed
10-02-2010, 01:48 PM
Nutrition and diet
The functioning of the immune system, like most systems in the body, is dependent on proper nutrition. It has been long known that severe malnutrition leads to immunodeficiency. Overnutrition is also associated with diseases such as diabetes and obesity, which are known to affect immune function. More moderate malnutrition, as well as certain specific trace mineral and nutrient deficiencies, can also compromise the immune response.

Specific foods may also affect the immune system; for example, fresh fruits, vegetables, and foods rich in certain fatty acids may foster a healthy immune system.[107

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system

Immunodeficiency (or immune deficiency) is a state in which the immune system's ability to fight infectious disease is compromised or entirely absent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunodeficiency

Nutrition (also called nourishment or aliment) is the provision, to cells and organisms, of the materials necessary (in the form of food) to support life. Many common health problems can be prevented or alleviated with a healthy diet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition

I think this is probably the most important thing that we need to consider. I did get the lecture from my surgeon months before I went into my surgeries about building my immune system. It truly is the best thing we can do for ourselves, surgery or not. I cannot believe that I have not started a thread on this subject matter in the past. This is the result of thinking about Joyful's difficult battles. I do know that this is the best defense that we have, all of us, scoliosis or not, surgery or not.

It truly is something to think about. Forget the foam! Eat correctly!

Ed

Susie*Bee
10-02-2010, 02:10 PM
Hear hear! When I talked to my surgeon about losing weight prior to my surgery, I got the lecture on the importance of good nutrition/healthy eating prior to (and after!) surgery. He said it was much more important to go into surgery having a healthy body due to good nutrition but being overweight, than being thinner because I'd lost weight but with poor nutrition. Actually, he gave the ok for a healthy dieting regime such as Weight Watchers (since that is what I asked about) where you are eating properly and getting all your fruits and veggies and protein and cutting out all the bad stuff. I did end up losing 20 lbs. but over a long period of time. It's just as important, during the fusing period, to continue eating a nutritionally sound diet. Your body needs to build up and heal. I did gain weight again after the surgery-- starting in the hospital! I wasn't allowed to diet until about 7 or 8 months post-op, and then again it was with the WW program.

Let's face it folks, we just should be eating sensibly all of the time, with maybe a splurge every now and then, but not very often. I'm back on the wagon in that sense, having spent the last several months working hard. I've lost 30 lbs. It's a life-long problem with me. I've finally discovered I only need very small portions and the world will still be ok if I never get any desserts again-- or only once in a very great while. Life isn't dealt equally to all of us, unfortunately. Which we scolis know, oh so well. Right?

jrnyc
10-02-2010, 03:18 PM
NEVER GET DESSERTS AGAIN?!!

WHAT?!

i live on sweets...have a wicked sweet tooth...
sugar works on the same part of the brain as alcohol...i was a drug/alcohol counselor for my 2nd (part time) job...always thought i was lucky it was sugar and not alcohol that i have a craving for !

i know...i know...sugar is very bad for the body..etc...i know!
also know i'd rather skip the entree and move straight to dessert!

i actually now am 97 pounds...(and my height shrunk to 5'3 from 5'5 due to scoli)...but am up from 86 pounds i sunk to from taking oxycontin!
i have zero appetite with pain meds.....on the oxycontin i didnt even want sugar...i quit taking oxy because the weight i was losing scared me...i am on hydrocodone...
i do not understand how anyone eats when they are on pain meds....not to sound harsh...i just cant understand how it is possible to eat while taking them...:confused:

have studied diet/nutrition for years and years...i know the right things to eat, right vitamins and minerals needed for good health...

now to actually do it...well, that is something else! :rolleyes:

jess

Susie*Bee
10-02-2010, 04:45 PM
Believe me, Jess, some of us just have been dealt rotten metabolism or whatever. I, too, have a sweet tooth and crave desserts. I have teetered back and forth on portion control/quality of life, etc. That's why I go up and down. :rolleyes: Not good. The older we get, the less food we need. One of the really bummers of aging, although I'm not THAT old yet. But I think my basic maintenance would probably be about 1200 calories a day. Doesn't leave room for much dessert. As I said, I gained in the hospital, I'm sure from the IV solution they fed me for 5 days, as I didn't eat that much once I could eat real food. One time I had influenza for 2 weeks and didn't eat for 10 days-- just had some fluids. I only lost 2 lbs. My body goes into starvation mode and shuts down. My doctor says I would have been a survivor in caveman days. :)

Sorry about the pain meds. They do tend to do a number on people. You just have to try your best to get in the nutrients you know you need. Ed has posted a great protein shake type recipe he used to make. It's important for your well-being, both before and after surgery.

And yes, I totally understand how hard it can be to KNOW and not be able to DO. Just like all the MDs who still smoke... or are overweight.

BTW-- I made brownies for my hubby this week, and when he had warm brownies with ice cream on them, I cut a one inch square for me and topped it with 1 T of ice cream and enjoyed it very much. So I did have some dessert. Just not very much. It was fine. It felt decadent.

jrnyc
10-02-2010, 06:55 PM
hi Susie
i swear, if it were not for sugar, i'd probably be way below 97 pounds right now!
the trick is to not call it dessert...to eat it in place of the entree...then, no weight gain! :rolleyes:

i know how stubborn weight can be, though...i was on steroids years ago..when they were at a loss for what else to do for Lyme patients who werent recovering completely...and the weight i gained from those meds took a looooong time to come off!!!
also, before i was on thyroid meds, i swore i could LOOK at chocolate cake and gain weight!

FYI...i was so weight conscious when younger, i asked for salt water instead of sugar water when i was in hospital and had to have an IV drip!!

jess

mamamax
10-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Thanks Ed - Diet is important, as is exercise and attention to spiritual development. Multi-factorial ;-)

oh - don't forget ... water!

Back-out
10-03-2010, 02:51 AM
Thanks. I needed that, Ed. Right now, especially. Some lessons we need to learn and relearn however much life hammers them home to us by painful experience.

And Susie Bee - how true about metabolic changes - especially for those of us who have cut down on exercise because of pain! I'm quite sedentary now, much as I hate to admit it. Hoping that will change. I say "hope" rather than a firm statement, because outside influences ARE instrumental.

I recently read (and agree) that in general one should minimize using expressions like "I'll try" or similar , as they reinforce a belief that we don't have control over outcomes. However, this is to a great extent a function of things outside my control - but ONLY IN PART.

titaniumed
10-03-2010, 04:38 AM
Jess,

Your balanced diet is critical. It takes discipline......Surgeons also look at your blood and can see what is going on.....usually right before surgery. Living on sweets doesnít cut it.

Having your immune system working properly is so important to fight off infection after a surgery. With all the threads and posts here about what people need to do or buy before their surgeries, I would say that this subject should be the priority. The #1 item addressed. This should be addressed months before going under the knife. After surgery, also very important, but people address the "what do I need to do" question before their surgeries.

I had to force myself to eat while on meds. It was extremely tough, and lost 40# in 40 days, which is insane, so I quit my meds before I withered away. I kept notes of everything I did, and knew that I needed so much more intake while healing. My protein smoothies helped quite a bit, and are easy to drink and pack quite a punch of "good stuff".

I used a protein whey powder, yogurt, banana, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, almonds, and blended. This is a better way to put on weight. You can get your sugars with fruit juice, not processed sugars.

Eliminate chemicals. Thatís in the center of the supermarket. You know, the cheese it's, fritos. etc. BTW If you ever need to light a campfire, frito's make great kindling. They light up like they were dipped in gasoline. Fruits donít catch on fire, they are much safer.

Mamamax mentions water, which is something that is necessary all across the board, and having passed stones, I'm a fish now. This is another thing that is critical. 99% of my meals I will drink water. Maybe an iced tea, without sugar. All soda's are REALLY bad for you, probably worse than drugs.
Spiritual development is also important... I was rewarded for my faith.

Mamamax
Science is not about lying to the world....Sometimes lying happens, not by our scientific community. If all the bees die on our planet due to cell phone radio frequency, who would be to blame? Scientists? Our cell phone company? Or ourselves, as consumers? Sometimes the quest for truth takes effort. Its unfortunate these things happen, but they do.

Suzie Bee
I know what you are saying about the "over nutrition" thing. I too was "over nutritioned" lol, before going in and was told to lose weight. It also affects immune function. In my thread about living to 100 years old, both people from Japan and Sardinia had completely different diets, one group basically ate meat, and the other ate seaweed, lol. I do remember in the film thinking that the only things that they did have in common were the fact that they were both active groups of people who didnít eat processed foods. Itís a testament to their immune systems working properly for so long.

Amanda
Yes, this is a hammer....sorry. This thread is about nutrition, not being sedentary. Nutrition probably having more importance, even though movement is important. If one cannot exercise as he or she feels adequate, then do the best you can through nutrition. Make the best with what you have. Hang a copy of the first page of this thread on your refrigerator.
Ed

foofer
10-03-2010, 11:09 AM
Ed,

Did you take a genius pill at 2 a.m.? Good thread!

OK Coach, Gonna go grab a glass of water and go for a walk!

Pooka1
10-03-2010, 11:27 AM
Mamamax wrote,

"Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best, because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)"

This is actually a perfect description of pseudoscience minus the bit about Nobel prize.

"He who tells the truth is driven out of nine villages." (African proverb as far as I know). People would rather be walled off from the truth in some cases.

The scientists are the good guys and the only hope for desperate folks.

mamamax
10-03-2010, 12:43 PM
Pooka1 wrote:

Science is what we do to keep us from lying to ourselves." -- Richard Feynman, Nobel Physicist and genius


Mamamax Retorts:

Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best,
because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)

Actually I agree with Pooka1 in principle - it is the practice that finds my tongue in cheek response. I believe politics become the ties that bind our scientists from truly working great miracles - the result being, that patients cannot judge ... because (not being scientists) they cannot accurately interpret the information presented through the political looking glass. I find nothing wrong with science or scientists. I can see a large gap between principle and practice, due in large part to the politics of any give era. IMO ;-)

Pooka1
10-03-2010, 01:05 PM
Pooka1 wrote:

Science is what we do to keep us from lying to ourselves." -- Richard Feynman, Nobel Physicist and genius


Mamamax Retorts:

Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best,
because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)

Actually I agree with Pooka1 in principle - it is the practice that finds my tongue in cheek response. I believe politics become the ties that bind our scientists from truly working great miracles - the result being, that patients cannot judge ... because (not being scientists) they cannot accurately interpret the information presented through the political looking glass. I find nothing wrong with science or scientists. I can see a large gap between principle and practice, due in large part to the politics of any give era. IMO ;-)

That was definitely true of Bush the Second. There were charges from Federal scientists that he had his minions editing scientific comments if you can believe it. Not other scientists editing scientific comments, politicos without a lick of training doing it for purely political purposes. This is what it means to wall yourself off from the truth, in this case for nefarious purpose.

http://www.webexhibits.org/bush/1.html

On page five of that site...


Then, in one well-documented case, the Bush administration blatantly tampered with the integrity of scientific analysis at a federal agency when, in June 2003, the White House tried to make a series of changes to the EPA’s draft Report on the Environment.8

A front-page article in the New York Times broke the news that White House officials tried to force the EPA to substantially alter the report’s section on climate change. The EPA report, which referenced the NAS review and other studies, stated that human activity is contributing significantly to climate change.9

The idea of Bush operatives commenting AT ALL on scientific matters can induce vomiting, them being so "geniusy" and all. :p

titaniumed
10-03-2010, 05:56 PM
Mamamax

I see. and Sharon, thx for pointing out these highly disturbing facts. Itís a shame when things like this happen....I have experience with vomiting, and am tried of it.

Anyway... back on track here. Hopefully, many will read this thread and realize that this is your best defense against any surgical complications.

Amy
Its not the genius "pill", itís the genius "switch!" LOL I keep my meds to remind me of how much I altered (inhibited) my systems in my recovery....

Time for some granola, fresh raspberries, blueberries, soy milk for lunch. Mmmmm... so good.

Ed

Back-out
10-03-2010, 06:53 PM
Hang a copy of the first page of this thread on your refrigerator.
Ed
Ha! Beatchya to it. It was already there - squeezed in! In a few other places , but where better than the fridge?

I've experienced stunning proof of the effect of good/bad nutrition on immuno-suppression. I'm increasingly convinced sugar and corn syrup are the next thing to poison. Certainly, that they depress the immune system.

I dote on fruit smoothies, but hey! I thought they were good for weight loss, not gain. :confused: Guess it's all a matter of quantity. And what do you suggest for vegetables? I spoil myself with pre-washed salads but am still forcing myself a bit. It's OK along with protein burgers of various favors but - how else? Somehow I can only make green stuff go down with something so bad for me, I'm left wondering about the net effect.

(How much can I wash greens in balsamic vinegar before I grab blue cheese dressing? Even lo-fat...Any recipe books, columns or online sites you recommend?)

Back-out
10-03-2010, 07:08 PM
Pookah quote
A front-page article in the New York Times broke the news that White House officials tried to force the EPA to substantially alter the reportís section on climate change.
Formerly known as "global warming" before climatic NUSPEAK took over to manipulate attitudes differently (that's our latest Fuhrer's method - attribution theorists helping out instead of using psychologists for boutique torture.).

There's lying and there's not telling the Truth and then there's syntactic refurbishment. :mad: What next?

jrnyc
10-03-2010, 08:03 PM
hey Ed
thanks for the lesson...i appreciate the concern...sincerely...
i DO know that stuff...hard time practicing it...:rolleyes:

when i could go to the gym in NYC, (and it was beautiful and fancy and REALLY comfortable...for those of us not big athletes, especially!) i drank fruit smoothies with frozen yogurt, ate egg white omelets, the whole nine yards...was 10-15 pounds (of lean muscle) heavier and healthier...

now, i often rely on sugar when in pain...quicker than alcohol..and tastes better...also, you wont get arrested for eating a chocolate chip cookie while driving...:)

i am currently becoming less and less of a meat eater...but every time folks start writing and waxing poetic over healthy eating, i cant help it, makes me want to pick up a pastrami sandwich...and i dont even like meat! must be the mischief in me ;)

jess

Pooka1
10-03-2010, 08:38 PM
There's lying and there's not telling the Truth and then there's syntactic refurbishment. :mad: What next?

There is science done by scientists, checked by scientists, and explained to the public by scientists.

Then there is everything else.

Only two categories. Simple.

Bigbluefrog
10-03-2010, 11:37 PM
Good info! Nutrition is very important for healing especially vitamin c and protein for rebuilding good health.

Just to clarify, diabetes has two forms...type 1 and type 2

My dd has type 1, and she eats very healthy and is slender, its cause is unknown. there is no cure.

type 2 is life style, and can be reversed at times with diet and exercise.

I just get this all the time with her diabetes, its autoimmune.

gracefully exiting now:o

titaniumed
10-04-2010, 11:28 PM
Amanda,

The smoothie recipe I posted will make you gain weight. Itís a body builders recipe. I lost 40 and had to put some weight back on while trying to heal, and I had a lot to heal.... Whew...Much better than slamming animal fat that your body can barely digest. Ground meats are death....Sausage and eggs, I can literally feel my arteries slamming shut! Whamo...like a bank safe! lol

I like most veggies.. I shy away from salads due to worrying about cleanliness..... I will always order a soup when at a restaurant, maybe a bean soup. They are a lot of work to make, so why not. Anyone can make a salad. If a salad, go real easy on the dressing. Real easy. I LOVE whole tomatoes. I will eat one, no dressing. Mmmm.....

I used a gall bladder diet when I was having gall attacks. I cut out most fats since I didnít want to trigger another attack. I lost 18# in 2 months, and I wasnít trying to lose weight. Remember that the body needs fats. I lost my gall bladder because of superfoods in staged surgeries lacking fats. No doctor will attest to this....but I have dated CT proof, and the radiologist noted this.

Avoid all artificial sweeteners, sugar, preservatives, refined and bleached foods (like white flour) Is that all the stuff in the center of the supermarket? Just about. You get the idea.

Notice the "avoid column" in this site. I know, its tough.... Hang it on your fridge. I have all sorts of stuff hanging on my fridge. LOL It does sink in.......I realized that many foods are basically non-edible.
http://www.gallbladderattack.com/gallbladderdiet.shtml

I know. Hanging out in New York or San Fran with all those excellent restaurants, I would probably give up, and explode. Immediately walk away from the bakery. I usually run, I have to.

Itís a start. Itís a change, a necessary change, and an important one.
We are talking about the condition of our immune systems here.
Ed

jrnyc
10-05-2010, 12:15 AM
Awww....Ed...never a bagel?? :eek:
(of course, REAL original NYC bagels were very small, rock hard, flour and water type things...no huge, puffy donut style things we see everywhere today)...still sell old style ones on lower east side of Manhattan...i remember them from when i was a little kid in NYC!

no bakeries...what next, no Santa Claus...?!!

as the pain got worse, i relied more on my "DOC" (drug of choice).....sugar...
the Chinese consider it a drug...it is indeed! sometimes it even works....:rolleyes:

jess

titaniumed
10-05-2010, 12:57 AM
Jess,

Oh no, I totally approve of Santa. Its bad Santa I disapprove of. Nothing worse than a bad Santa. LOL

Oh, I'm not veggie, I'm just anti crap! I will eat a little steak, just no fat. It doesnít happen too often.

Try a whole wheat english muffin, with jam. NO butter.

Its just there are so many foods out there that really are bad news. After you read a few books, or visit a few web sites, you realize how much foods are altered. Chemicals, dyes, preservatives, hormones, etc. If it lasts more than 2 days, donít eat it.

I like farmers markets and supporting farmers. Itís the real deal, and truly American. Support your farmers!

I did change my eating habits years ago after discussing these things with a few Doctors. I truly believe it saved me in my scoli surgeries. The change was worth it. I did not want to be taking cholesterol drugs for the rest of my life, it just didnít make any sense to me at all.

I like sugar, but Nancy Reagan taught me to "just say no"
Ed

jrnyc
10-05-2010, 01:51 AM
you are right..NOTHING worse than a bad Santa...gives one the chills!

guess it helped that i grew up without butter or salt...always have had low cholesterol..but sugar...well, sometimes shows high on blood work...sometimes not...
i read a fascinating book when in social work school...."Anatomy of a Food Addiction"...amazing! the way foods work in the body...and the ones that act like drugs...i mean, i dont know if carrots are worse than chocolate...well, i do, but there are certain benefits to chocolate! ;)

seriously, though...Dr Lonner gave me lab orders for nutritional profile, and once those results are in, maybe a nutritionist...which i dont need...just need the motivation and desire...i know the stuff intellectually...been reading nutrition books for years...

a "DOC" is a hard habit to break! :rolleyes:

thanks, Ed

jess

Singer
10-05-2010, 06:56 AM
Interestingly, my eating habits changed significantly after my surgery -- I found that I craved the healthy stuff, which wasn't always the case before. I now eat a lot of fruits and greens, although the occasional steak tastes really good too. And I don't think life would be worth living if I couldn't have ice cream.

All things in moderation......:cool:

foofer
10-05-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm with Singer, Jess, AND Ed,

If I try to cold turkey on all the fun things....then it can turn into a free-for-all. So I have to allow myself some exceptions. I work in an environment where most of the ladies and our token man are great cooks. We talk about food all the time and bring each other healthy and lesser-so snacks. I can walk away from 90% of it, but yesterday had to try the organic (:eek:;)) cheesecake because it was someone's birthday. Today I had to bring my car in to the body shop for an estimate (a curb jumped up at me) and while waiting, I went to the coffee shop and had a stare-down with a scone. The scone won, and now I am sworn off of all bad guys for a week or so until the next contest.

foofer
10-05-2010, 11:25 AM
Jess,

Oh no, I totally approve of Santa. Its bad Santa I disapprove of. Nothing worse than a bad Santa. LOL

Oh, I'm not veggie, I'm just anti crap! I will eat a little steak, just no fat. It doesnít happen too often.

Try a whole wheat english muffin, with jam. NO butter.

Its just there are so many foods out there that really are bad news. After you read a few books, or visit a few web sites, you realize how much foods are altered. Chemicals, dyes, preservatives, hormones, etc. If it lasts more than 2 days, donít eat it.

I like farmers markets and supporting farmers. Itís the real deal, and truly American. Support your farmers!

I did change my eating habits years ago after discussing these things with a few Doctors. I truly believe it saved me in my scoli surgeries. The change was worth it. I did not want to be taking cholesterol drugs for the rest of my life, it just didnít make any sense to me at all.

I like sugar, but Nancy Reagan taught me to "just say no"
Ed

Just say Maybe.

jrnyc
10-05-2010, 11:29 AM
hey Amy
i know about those "stare downs"...
and the "call outs"...chocolate used to call my name if i ever had any in refrig! :)

jess

foofer
10-05-2010, 11:38 AM
"Call-outs"! Jess, I love it. Never heard that one before, and I'm taking it to work with me and using it first chance I get....

Then I have my salad and chicken and not-enough-dressing for lunch. sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

JenniferG
10-05-2010, 05:26 PM
I've been enjoying this thread because nutrition has always been an interest of mine. I'm a big vegie eater, always have been, and in the last 6 months we started a vegie garden. It's so easy! I don't know why we didn't do it years ago, or why others don't. We bought in organic soil and we don't use sprays. Every day I wander out and graze on fresh picked snow peas, green beans, radishes and cherry tomatoes.

For lunch I make a huge salad sandwich (I make my own nutty/seedy/grainy bread which I love) using the various types of lettuce leaves which we have in the garden, with tomatoes, grated raw beetroot etc. We take the lettuce leaves off the plant and the plant continues growing.

Every night we add some silver beet, pak choy, bok choy, butter beans, tomatoes, leaks, parsley (boy do we have parsely!) or peas to our meal. And we only have a small garden. Soon we'll abandon most of it for the Summer. The heat and the bugs (5 inch grasshoppers) and caterpillars, are too great a foe to battle. I don't mind sharing, but I give up when they don't leave me any. ;) I will miss not having fresh veg. for a few months, can't wait to try some new varieties next year.

Singer
10-05-2010, 08:19 PM
I was really enjoying your post until I got to the part about the 5-inch grasshoppers -- aaaaaugh! :D:D