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JessicaNoVa
06-06-2010, 11:07 AM
I'm curious if anyone knows the rough cost of the Cheneau brace? (specifically from Orthotic Solutions). They are not a preferred provider for our insurance company (Aetna) and to be honest, I'm not even sure if Aetna will cover any of the cost. This is the wording I'm finding:

III.Scoliosis braces
A.Aetna considers the following types of braces medically necessary durable medical equipment (DME) for the treatment of scoliosis:

1.Standard thoracolumbrosacral orthosis (TLSO) brace
2.Boston scoliosis brace
3.Charleston scoliosis brace
4.Milwaukee scoliosis brace.

B.Aetna considers the following types of scoliosis braces experimental and investigational:

1.SpineCor Dynamic Corrective Brace
2.Providence Scoliosis System
3.Copes scoliosis brace
4.The Rosenberger brace.

We'll call them tomorrow but was curious if anyone had any info.
Thanks!

Jessica

leahdragonfly
06-06-2010, 12:52 PM
Hi Jessica,

I have no personal knowledge of the Cheneau, but Chris (mamandcrm) has had an amazing result so far with her daughter's Cheneau through Luke, and I recall they had some insurance coverage of the brace.

Hopefully Chris will pop in soon and give you more info. You can also search through the threads for Cheneau and find her old posts about their experience with the brace and insurance. It seems like Luke's office should also be able to give you more info about this.

Good luck!

tonibunny
06-07-2010, 08:37 AM
As I understand it, the Cheneau is basically a custom-moulded TLSO that has sections cut-out. Hopefully you would be able to get your insurance company to cover it as a standard TLSO.

JessicaNoVa
06-07-2010, 08:39 AM
As I understand it, the Cheneau is basically a custom-moulded TLSO that has sections cut-out. Hopefully you would be able to get your insurance company to cover it as a standard TLSO.

That's what I'm hoping for!

Pooka1
06-07-2010, 08:44 AM
There is a Schroth outfit in Wisconisn (not sure which) that is charging nearly double for this brace than you can get it elsewhere. BigBlueFrog posted about it. If you avoid that place then you will be fine. :)

mamandcrm
06-07-2010, 09:12 AM
Hi Jessica, I would suggest you call Orthotic Solutions and tell them what your coverage is. They may be able to call your insurer for you and tell you what is covered. They are in-network only with Blue Cross/Blue Shield I believe, which we have, so we have been covered. However, we have a high deductible so we pay the insurance rate out of pocket, final costs being about $2800. With absolutely no insurance kicking in, it's $4500 I think. We used to have Cigna and they paid a decent amount toward the brace (I don't recall what). Anything over that was our responsibility. Hope that helps. Also, just FYI, the brace is a TLSO (custom molded) but does not necessarily have cut outs. G's first RC had no cut outs, and we later had them done just for better air circulation. Feel free to contact me with any questions.

tonibunny
06-07-2010, 10:26 AM
Ooh, that's interesting Mamandcrm - could you possibly tell me what the difference is between a custom-moulded TLSO and a Cheneau (if there is one)? All of my braces when I was a child were custom moulded whilst I was on a frame to derotate me (the same EDF frame that my plaster bodycasts were applied on) so I thought the Cheneau sounded pretty much the same, however someone told me that they were different because the Cheneau had these cut-outs too.

Thanks :)

momw/scoli
06-07-2010, 12:06 PM
My daughter has a providence brace and Aetna paid for most of it last summer. We did go to a network provider. I think we had to pay about $350 for it. I was worried about it being considered experimental too. I hope things haven't changed because I think she has almost outgrown this one. We go back to the Dr. June 30.

JessicaNoVa
06-07-2010, 12:08 PM
Ok, whew. Made Helen's appointments at Orthotic Solutions. Her first one, which will include the scan, is next Monday.

They will charge us $3800 for the brace and submit a bill to our insurance company for $4500. Our insurance will reimburse us 80% after a $1500 deductible, so it looks like we'll be paying about $2000 out of pocket.

mamandcrm
06-07-2010, 12:09 PM
Hi tonibunny,

I don't think I can really answer your question as I don't know how other custom braces are made. The one specific difference I know of with the RC is that it has an expansion area at the top (brace sticks out a bit) for more comfortable breathing. It also is designed to derotate but I don't know the specifics of that. Up until a couple years ago, it was physically casted (lie on a table and have strips put on you), now at the practice we go to, they use CAD/CAM (?is that right?) to scan her torso, then make the cast from that, and then the brace, then trim, bend and cut further from there. Anyway, many of them DO have cut-outs, some probably for orthotic reasons, but many for the ventilation and comfort. G's was solid to start as she didn't want any ventilation cut-outs, then changed her mind later on. She also has had various holes cut since in her braces as she grows and the orthotist "remodels" it for her to adjust for that and her curve. Don't know if that adds anything to your understanding but it's all I've got! :)

tonibunny
06-07-2010, 03:10 PM
Thanks mamandcrm! That's really helpful :)

Pooka1
06-10-2010, 08:25 PM
The people who want $6,000 for the brace are Scoliosis Rehab in Steven's Point, WI.

This should be a sticky so folks know who to avoid for this brace.

bas2101
06-15-2010, 02:28 PM
While Scoliosis Rehab Inc. in Wisconsin advocates for the Rigo-Cheneau brace, they do NOT make, sell or profit from this brace, nor have they ever. The above information is untrue.

rscsri
06-16-2010, 10:43 AM
The people who want $6,000 for the brace are Scoliosis Rehab in Steven's Point, WI.

This should be a sticky so folks know who to avoid for this brace.

I am one of the founders of the first Schroth-based clinic in the US (scoliosisrehab.com). My child was a patient of Dr Manuel Rigo and Beth Janssen (the other founder). Physical therapy for spinal deformities has been utilized in Europe for over eighty years and in Asia and the Middle East for several decades. I felt strongly that people in the US should have this option as part of the medical-model continuum of care for spinal deformities (i.e. watching and waiting, exercises, bracing, surgery, post-surgical management).

ScoliosisRehab works with patients of all ages, braced or unbraced, in everything from the SpineCor to the Rigo Système Cheneau brace. Because of the symbiotic relationship between the Rigo Système Cheneau brace and the physical therapy exercises, this is the brace we recommend when asked. To the best of my knowledge, the only certified, authorized orthotist for the Rigo Système Cheneau brace in the US is Grant Wood who is located in California. As a courtesy to our patients, Mr. Wood comes to our clinics quarterly.

I would like to clarify misinformation that has been posted on this forum. ScoliosisRehab does NOT have and has NEVER had any economic relationship with Mr. Wood. We do assist patients in scheduling with him and provide him with a work space when he is at our facilities. ScoliosisRehab does not know how or what Mr. Wood charges individual patients for his services, whether or not a specific insurer will reimburse the cost of the orthosis, or how this compares with other orthotists’ services. For more information about the Rigo Système Cheneau brace, please refer to Mr. Wood’s website, www.grantwoodortho.com.

My thoughts are with you as you deal with your own or your child’s diagnosis of a spinal deformity.

mamandcrm
06-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Just FYI, Luke Stikeleather at Orthotic Solutions also is a trained, authorized maker of the Rigo Cheneau brace, and has been for quite some time.

bbrian35
06-23-2010, 07:51 PM
There is a Schroth outfit in Wisconisn (not sure which) that is charging nearly double for this brace than you can get it elsewhere. BigBlueFrog posted about it. If you avoid that place then you will be fine. :)

I don't think it's Spinal Dynamics or Patrick Flanagan that charges double for a brace. We have the RCS brace made by Patrick Flanagan. He works out of Spinal Dynamics 1-2 days a month. He is an incredible, knowledgable orthotist. He was trained by Dr. Rigo himself from what I know. The brace he made was about $500. more than what the Boston Brace would have cost thru the orthopedics dept. at Children's Hospital. The RSC or Cheneau address more than the left/right spinal movement that the Boston does. The RSC or Cheneau address rotation as well as kyphosis and lordosis. Even Kaz, an orthotist at Children's said he wished that they were trained in RSC or Cheneau brace making. My daughter wears a brace made by Patrick. He evaluates her regularly and adjusts when necessary. She has made great progress so far with a reduction in Cobb angle, but at least as important, her kyphosis, which was flat, is showing some progression toward a more normal curve. Xrays also show spinal rotation has been reduced in brace. We are soon to have our 1st out of brace images done and hope to see that the brace is holding the curve, if not lessening it.

mamandcrm
06-23-2010, 08:08 PM
Hi bbrian35,

Happy to hear your daughter is doing well :)

bbrian35
06-23-2010, 08:21 PM
Hi bbrian35,

Happy to hear your daughter is doing well :)

Thanks, our experience with the RSC has been greater than what I ever expected when this all started. Good to see the wonderful results on your signature!

Pooka1
06-23-2010, 09:48 PM
Here is what BigBlueFrog posted on 31 January 2010 (emphasis added)

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showpost.php?p=91257&postcount=17


We just completed a week of intensive Schroth therapy at the Scoliosis Rehab in Steven's Point, WI. We paid out of pocket since insurance didn't accept out of network providers. If you have an option to go out of network it should be covered under Physical therapy.

We had a very positive experience, she worked for 4 hours a day. Two hours in the morning and two hours in the early afternoon.

Ambrea learned how to correct her spine with elongation and traction. Re learning basic mechanics. They taught her to avoid twisting or extra turning as that can increase the torc of the spine.

They measured her air input and lung function, measured height. She also learned rotational breathing, and isometric exercises to help strengthen the weaker areas and breathing exercises to open constricted areas.

At the end of the week her posture improved greatly, but it is not the end of her journey ....its the beginning. It is an investment. My husband built the bars and we put up mirrors in our sun-room. For thirty minutes a day she does the lengthening and coordination exercises. This helps retrain her brain in preconception.

We were going to get a spinecor brace..schroth prefers rigo cheneau. The therapist reccomended that one over all. the cost of the brace is $6000 at this time. mmm wonder if insurance covers it?

So I guess the good folks here (and in Stevens Point, WI) claim BigBlueFrog is either mistaken or lying. There is no third option.

bbrian35, very glad you are getting great results with the brace.

Pooka1
06-23-2010, 09:51 PM
Here is a thread I started when my conscience was shocked by someone charging $6K for this brace... this article calls into question the ability of the brace to correct double major curves and that is what BigBlueFrog's daughter has. I just wanted her to know about this in case she was considering popping $6K out of pocket.

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9996

mariaf
06-24-2010, 07:56 AM
That's very interesting, Sharon - thanks.

It seems the article might be doing more than just "calling into question" the ability of the brace to correct double major curves. I wonder if, in general, pracitioners prescribing this brace are telling folks, upfront, that it has not been found to be effective for double major curves. I sure hope so.

I know this brace has been effective, so far, in many cases - and it seems there is a group of patients who can definitely benefit from it. However, it's important (with ANY treatment method) to target those patients that it is likely to work for. Take VBS, for example - a lot of patients are told up front that they are not ideal candidates for this surgery and are given other treatment options better suited for them, whether it be another surgical procedure, sticking with bracing, etc.

mamandcrm
06-24-2010, 06:41 PM
Everyone should fully research any treatment they are considering and consult with experienced and responsible professionals in that regard, and then make an informed judgment as to the best course of action for their child. Any person with a child with double major curves should challenge the suitability of an RC brace for their child given the existence of this study. However, we are discussing here the advice that one person (who is absent from this discussion to give further detail) received from a particular therapist in the course of a therapy session. Please do not generalize, explicitly or implicitly, the experience of one person to others. Many do not have double major curves. And I am sure there are other circumstances for which the RC may not be recommended. However, the Rigo-Cheneau brace is a TLSO brace that, as far as I know, is prescribed by physicians, just as the Boston brace is prescribed by physicians. I am not sure what the term "practitioner" implies. I really dislike having to post in reply to this but it concerns me that anyone may be discouraged from even looking into this brace because of the last couple posts in this thread, and that does those people a disservice. Please recall that the person that started this thread ended up with a satisfactory result as far as the cost of the brace. The RC is not for everyone. But for some, it may be a gift.

mariaf
06-24-2010, 08:06 PM
I am not sure what the term "practitioner" implies.

The term "practitioner" was not meant to imply anything in particular.

Please re-read my post - I said explicitly that the brace has been effective for many patients and that I believe certain patients can benefit from it.

As for the rest of my post (regarding folks being told upfront that the brace has not been shown to be effective for double major curves), I fully stand by that.

It is no different than a patient who is considering VBS (but who is, for example, too skeletally mature to benefit from it), being told up front that the procedure is not likely to work. I would expect patients to be advised up front in these case as well - and they are.

I was honestly surprised that you were apparently so upset by folks discussing the data regarding double major curves and that this brace may not be the best choice for those particular patients.

mamandcrm
06-24-2010, 08:32 PM
As I said, I was not sure what you meant. Doctors prescribe, so I suppose in re-reading now that you must have meant doctors, in this case orthopedic surgeons. Please re-read my post. It states that anyone with double major curves should "challenge" the use of the brace. This was a thread about the cost of the brace, something that turned out fine for the poster, and everyone else who participated in the thread. But somehow it turned ito something else, the reason for that I do not know. I'm done here.

Pooka1
06-24-2010, 09:49 PM
That's very interesting, Sharon - thanks.

It seems the article might be doing more than just "calling into question" the ability of the brace to correct double major curves. I wonder if, in general, practitioners prescribing this brace are telling folks, upfront, that it has not been found to be effective for double major curves. I sure hope so.

I suspect any experienced pediatric orthopedic surgeon would be familiar with the literature enough not to prescribe it for a double major curve (though that one article I posted could be false). I would be shocked if a Schroth type or an orthotist knew about the literature questioning the efficacy of the brace with double major curves. The ignorance of Schroth practitioners in apparently suggesting this brace to all comers irrespective of curve type is in keeping with their general lack of expertise compared to surgeons.

There is some reason many surgeons do not prescribe the RC brace just like there is a reason they largely don't prescribe the Spinecor. I suggest in the case of RC brace there is simply no literature, just claims by the inventor. That article I posted was the only one I found though IIRC I didn't spend too much time looking. If anyone knows of any other articles on this brace I would like to read them. Thanks.

JessicaNoVa
06-25-2010, 09:30 AM
To bring this back around to the original topic...;)

I received an itemized bill for the RSC brace. If anyone is curious, it's as follows:

Body Jacket (molded to patient model): $1800
Additions to TSLO – Thoracic: $805
Additions to TSLO – Lumbar: $170
Additions to TSLO – Kyphosis: $140
Protective Body sock quantity 7: $350
Pads: $340
Casting Supplies: $184
Unspecified additions, Quantity 16 (which I take to mean future adjustments): $755.04


For a total of $4555.04.

mariaf
06-25-2010, 11:49 AM
This was a thread about the cost of the brace, something that turned out fine for the poster, and everyone else who participated in the thread. But somehow it turned ito something else.....

That's true. But then again, it's not that unusual for a thread to be inadvertently 'hijacked' during the natural course of discussions. It usually isn't a big deal :)

Pooka1
06-25-2010, 11:54 AM
That's true. But then again, it's not that unusual for a thread to be inadvertently 'hijacked' during the natural course of discussions. It usually isn't a big deal :)

My intent was to try to prevent someone from potentially getting bilked for a brace that probably isn't appropriate for her daughter. Schroth folks at certain locations suggest this brace in a knee-jerk fashion to all comers apparently. This is plain ignorant. Schroth purveyors are not trained to do research so they don't know what they don't know.

Pooka1
06-25-2010, 11:55 AM
for a total of $4555.04.

$6,000 >> $4,555.04

bbrian35
06-29-2010, 07:41 PM
There are those who read about it and those who live it and can speak from personal experience. I speak from living it. RCS brace made by Patrick Flanagan working out of Spinal Dynamics in Milwaukee cost less than $3500 for everything from plaster casting to fitting and adjustment. What happens in Stevens Point, I have no knowledge of. To those looking for advice for treatment of a loved one with scoliosis who requires bracing, RSC and Schroth pysical therapy can be valuable in the halting and possible reversal of Cobb angle and vertebral body rotation. Do your homework, find a reputable clinician/MD who treats scoliosis, and for goodness sake, get information from other places than just here. Whether a Boston brace, RSC, Cheneau, or any other treatment is suggested-RESEARCH. Too many people here care more about quoting research they've read than sharing personal experiences and what's worked or not worked for them. Don't let certain posters discourage you. Utilize the private messaging thru this forum and you'll keep out of the mess that certain threads degrade into. My kid's experience with RCS brace and Schroth PT has given her a 9 degree reduction of Cobb angle "out of brace" of her thoracic curve in 6 months. Her posture, has dramatically improved thru Schroth. I'm sure that this outcome up to this point will be attributed to something other than the RCS brace and Scroth PT by someone here. If you are considering Cheneau or RSC brace and would like any info from my payments to providers for bracing and PT to our treatment plan with Dr Thometz at Children's Hospital in Milwaukee-PM me. I'd be happy to share my experience with my daughter's scoliosis with you.

Pooka1
06-29-2010, 07:47 PM
RCS brace made by Patrick Flanagan working out of Spinal Dynamics in Milwaukee cost less than $3500 for everything from plaster casting to fitting and adjustment.

$6,000 >> $3,500

If your conscience isn't shocked by this then it probably can't be shocked.

thecole6
09-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Our 12 year old daughter was fitted with an RSC brace by Grant Wood this summer. She also underwent 2 weeks of Schroth therapy at Scoliosis Rehab. She now does her daily 30-45 minutes of exercise fairly diligently--we are so proud of her! We have four children ages 6,8,10 and 12, and it was a huge challenge to pursue more aggressive scoliosis treatment for our eldest daughter with all the financial and family logistics. However, it was the best decision we ever made. After wearing the brace for just 6 weeks, Anna's in-brace x-rays showed a reduction of thoracic curve from 24 degrees to 13 degrees, and the lumbar curve went from 21 degrees to 0 degrees! The orthopedic surgeon came in with the x-rays in her hands and said: “I have never seen anything quite like this in all my years of practice. I have learned something today!”

This was such a big encouragement because it had been a hard sell to get Anna to commit to not only doing the therapy exercises, but to embrace wearing a brace :) for 23 hours while starting Junior High, but she has done it, and we are so thankful for that. The kindness and care of the PT's at Scoliosis Rehab, and Grant Wood, the orthotist in San Mateo, really helped make a difference. It has been amazing to see our daughter become so body aware, and to see her mentally and physically take “authority” over her scoliosis posturally.

We chose Grant Wood as Anna’s orthotist because our medical research revealed that the copyright for the RSC brace is held by Ortholutions in Germany, and that Grant is the only orthotist in North America who is authorized to deliver a true RSC brace, which would be comparable to what we would get going to Dr. Rigo himself in Spain (which we would never be able to do!). We knew that Anna had only a small window of time (her growth plates are almost closed) where we could hope for an improvement. So it was clear to us that we had one shot at this. Grant had so many years of training and collaboration with Dr. Rigo, that we felt that he would be the best option for us.

We were amazed and touched at Grant’s knowledge and genuine concern for Anna’s scoliosis needs. His gentle and kind manner helped alleviate her anxiety and self-consciousness, and his positive attitude gave her hope. The brace was made in Germany according to her measurements and curve pattern. Fitting the brace was truly labor and time intensive. I thought that he was surely not serious about it taking most of the day for the first day of fitting—it took 6 hours that first day, and an additional 2 hours the next day. A total of 8 hours of hand molding to tailor the brace for the best possible correction and comfort.

The RSC brace cost about $5,500. This included brace fabrication in Germany and shipping to California, the medical team consultation between Grant, Dr. Rigo and Ortholutions, and the many hours of additional fitting and hand molding by Grant. Our insurance which had refused to approve all physical therapy treatment to date, surprisingly ended up covering a fair amount of the cost. We are grateful that our orthopedic was supportive in writing the prescription, although she had never worked with an RSC brace. This treatment was truly a God-send for us. This is our story and we hope it encourages someone else.

Pooka1
09-11-2010, 06:41 AM
That's a great in-brace correction. If her growth plates are nearly closed then you might be out of the woods soon.

Based on the prices mentioned upthread and in other threads, shipping (Germany to CA) on your brace was between $1,000 and $2,000 which is better than the shipping from CA to WI of about $1,500 to $2,500.

mariaf
09-11-2010, 08:01 AM
That's great news - and I agree that if the growth plates are nearly closed, she could be out of the woods before you know it :)

I am hoping that her out-of-brace numbers are equally encouraging!

careade
11-01-2010, 01:56 PM
We found Grant Wood in California who made another brace. This was a custom made RSC brace which involved a team of scoliosis specialists in Germany, Spain and the USA. The brace cost approximately $5000 and our insurance company covered a major portion of the cost so it was not a financial strain for our family.

The results with the new RSC brace have been much better than a previous dynamic brace that our daughter had worn for 13 months when she was 13 and recently diagnosed with radical bi-phasic scoliosis. When her back and scoliosis was getting worse, we took her out of that brace and researched Schroth physical therapy and the RSC brace. With Schroth and RSC, at 15, she had an initial reduction in her lumbar and thoracic curves last year.

Now she is 16 and continues to wear her RSC brace at night (she feels better sleeping in it than without it). Her scoliosis is stable and she feels and looks better than she has ever felt since her diagnosis in 2007. We feel confident that her custom-made brace from Dr Rigo´s original shapes-designs have contributed to her current stability and health. Our RSC brace from Mr. Wood looks completely different from other braces that say they are RSC braces, which makes me wonder..… My husband and I believe that we are getting what we paid for…and my daughter is happy and pain-free too.

Pooka1
11-01-2010, 03:57 PM
The results with the new RSC brace have been much better than a previous dynamic brace that our daughter had worn for 13 months when she was 13 and recently diagnosed with radical bi-phasic scoliosis.

Hi and welcome. Glad you are getting good results.

By "dynamic brace" do you mean Spinecor?

Also what is "radical bi-phasic scoliosis?"

Thanks in advance.

careade
11-01-2010, 10:12 PM
Hello and thank you.

Yes, she was in Spinecor.

Radical bi-phasic scoliosis was her diagnosis which is fairly severe double curves. Today, no one knows she has scoliosis by just looking at her. Only a trained eye would be able to tell. The best part is that she is virtually pain-free. Last year at her homecoming dance when she danced all night without shoes, she complained the next day. But that was the last time I remember her in pain. Heck, I would be hurting too!

Pooka1
11-02-2010, 06:46 AM
Hello and thank you.

Yes, she was in Spinecor.

Radical bi-phasic scoliosis was her diagnosis which is fairly severe double curves. Today, no one knows she has scoliosis by just looking at her. Only a trained eye would be able to tell. The best part is that she is virtually pain-free. Last year at her homecoming dance when she danced all night without shoes, she complained the next day. But that was the last time I remember her in pain. Heck, I would be hurting too!

Thanks for that. I never heard the term "radical bi-phasic scoliosis" before but of course this is not my area. I think orthopedic surgeons refer to that as a "double major" curve. Did someone other than an orthopedic surgeon use that term?

So as I understand your history, Spinecor did not hold the curve during the growth spurt so you changed her to hard shell brace.

Can I ask how much did her curves progress in Spinecor and did the RCS brace finally hold them through the growth spurt? That would be good information for folks here I think. There is some skepticism that Spinecor can hold curves during the growth spurt and your daughter is an example of that. Were you working with the Montreal group on Spinecor?

What is your daughter's plan about how much longer she will wear the brace? Braces are not generally thought effective after kids stop growing except for pain. They help with that in some skeletally mature adults and maybe your daughter is benefiting in that way which is good.