Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is surgery a gamble?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is surgery a gamble?

    I have worried for 5 months and have 5 months left to worry and hope to God I'm making the right decision to have surgery. I am physically active now with golf, tap dancing, bike riding, classes at the Y and realize that it will take up to a year before returning to many activities, if ever. I am encouraged by so many (Ed comes to mind) that returned to an activie life. Today, in my Turbo-Kick class, I'm thinking I won't be able to do those moves, just as I thought the other day in Zumba, and the high impact steps in tap dancing. My main love is golf. I will be able to return after a year, hopefully, but since I'll be fused to my sacrum, it's going to be difficult to ever have a 6 handicap again since a good swing involves twisting. As soon as I typed that, I'm thinking about my girl friend who is paralyzed from a car accident years ago and I'm worried about a score in golf! Pretty pathetic of me. I guess I just have to hope I don't have complications and the decision for surgery will give me better odds later in life for an active life. My other big worry after reading blogs, is the pain medications and all of the problems they bring when trying to wean off of them. I also worry about my husband giving up so much to take care of me and our dogs (always my job). I hope I don't chicken out of having the surgery and then when I'm too old, regret that I didn't go through with it. I know I have a good surgeon, so I need to have positive thoughts, I'm just scared!
    Karen

    Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
    Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
    70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
    Rib Hump-GONE!
    Age-60 at the time of surgery
    Now 66
    Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
    Retired Kdgn. Teacher

    See photobucket link for:
    Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
    Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
    tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
    http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

  • #2
    I'm sure that from what I've read about Dr. Lenke, he wouldn't advise surgery unless you really need it. Gosh, I'm 41 years old and upset because no one will do surgery. I have only a 46* curve, but it has just recently started progressing. I have pain in my curve, so that is why I want the surgery. No one seems to think it will help my pain at this point. I don't know anything about what your problem is with your lower spine, but again, if Dr. Lenke thinks you need it, then you probably do. It would be better to get it over with now, then to wait until your health fails. Just my thought. November is a long way away. If you're not having pain now, you really need to weigh the pros and cons of surgery. I'm sorry you are going through this struggle. I think that spinal fusion takes a great mindset that you have to prepare for before you can commit to having it done. I think this is probably what you are really struggling with. Best wishes for a healthy and active future!
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

    Comment


    • #3
      I personally feel that the ones who might most regret surgery (at least in the short term) are those individuals who are athletic and very physically active, especially if they require a very long fusion like mine. But on the other hand, if you have a huge curve that is progressing, how much longer do you think you will be able to remain active? I remember on one of my surgeon consults, I expressed concern over not being able to bend with such a long fusion, and the surgeon reminded me that with my big lumbar curve I would not be able to bend much longer anyway.

      I had absolutely no problems associated with drug withdrawal. My surgeon is very stringent about not over-prescribing narcotics. He has seen too much dependency and addiction. My pain was appropriately well-managed and at about eight weeks I required only occasional over-the-counter pain relievers.

      Be thankful you have someone to worry about who will be your caregiver. I had to face this major surgery alone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Weak Moment-Feel Better Already

        Thanks to both of you for making good points. I know that it would be a bigger gamble without surgery and that Dr. Lenke is extremely skillful. Yes, Chris, I am extremely lucky to have a husband who will help me in recovery. I will start counting my blessings and enjoy my next 5 months and then br anxious to get the surgery behind me. Chris, I am so glad to hear that you didn't have any problems with drug withdrawal. Last night, I had a friend ask why in the world I would have such an extreme surgery with all that I do and I guess that just got me thinking. Thanks, again.
        Karen
        Karen

        Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
        Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
        70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
        Rib Hump-GONE!
        Age-60 at the time of surgery
        Now 66
        Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
        Retired Kdgn. Teacher

        See photobucket link for:
        Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
        Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
        tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
        http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, I'd have to say it IS a gamble (even Dr. Lenke says there's a ten % risk of GREATER pain, I believe), However, it's one where the odds are overwhelmingly on your side especially in hands like your surgeon's.

          What's more, it's important to realize that as with so many things, doing nothing is ALSO a treatment choice with its own odds. Depending on your age, condition and what you do instead of surgery, those odds can be bad. The only difference is that the damage from doing nothing, doing something so-so (exercise - of mixed utility) or outright harmful (poor posture, narcotics abuse), is to a degree, reversible while the surgery is NOT.

          Perhaps constructive, specialized exercise (usually quite demanding) may be a form of temporizing that does no harm, - may in fact, depending on your age, do good. For a dedicated minority, it may even allow one to avoid surgery altogether.

          Surgery carries risks of its own, of course, and they appear to be lasting (e.g., infection can occur many years after surgery with no "all clear"). Permanent lifestyle changes are knowable in advance but they appear to be very modifiable depending on how well we adapt. "Wait and see" can be prudent to a point, especially if something constructive is done meanwhile. Long -term, every coping strategy is a treatment choice.

          Very little in life is neutral, I'm afraid, and all risk:benefit analyses need to account for this. I figure we just make decisions as well as possible based on estimated odds, but never forgetting that there's no opting out of risk even by inaction!

          Last edited by Back-out; 06-02-2010, 03:17 PM.
          Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
          Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
          main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
          Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

          Comment


          • #6
            Karen -- the main thing to keep in mind is that with a progressing spine, having the surgery is a gamble, but NOT having the surgery is a big gamble too. I spent months and months weighing my options and finally came to the conclusion that it seemed fairly certain that eventually I was not going to have a normal spine or a normal range of activities without the surgery, and there was a statistically good chance that I could at least halt the progression if I had the surgery.

            Bear in mind also that it took three whole years of recovery for me to be able to garden again -- something I loved and despaired of ever returning to. In the past month, I've planted flowers, mulched, weeded, and pushed a wheelbarrow around. I'm careful and do things a bit differently, but my back can take it, and I have less pain than I did doing the same things before surgery.

            If you're anything like me, you'll probably continue to second-guess yourself all the way into the OR, and you'll be relieved to get it over with. Not easy, but ultimately worth it - in most cases.
            Chris
            A/P fusion on June 19, 2007 at age 52; T10-L5
            Pre-op thoracolumbar curve: 70 degrees
            Post-op curve: 12 degrees
            Dr. Boachie-adjei, HSS, New York

            Comment


            • #7
              Karen-- just to add a little more about the drug addiction/withdrawal part. I took hydrocodone and neurontin for about 5 months, tapering down in both how often and how much, as my doctor directed me. I had no problems at all weaning off or with any kind of withdrawal. I did need the pain medication that long-- some of us do. In fact, I still occasionally have some bad days and take a tramadol for pain. I'm a bit green when I read of those who never seem to ache. I mostly feel good, but I sometimes ache and my back has been doing a lot of popping lately and aching in the center and lower part. Oh well! Anyway, it's possible to take pain meds and not have a problem with them. I'm sorry you got the impression that people do.
              71 and plugging along... but having some problems
              2007 52° w/ severe lumbar stenosis & L2L3 lateral listhesis (side shift)
              5/4/07 posterior fusion T2-L4 w/ laminectomies and osteotomies @L2L3, L3L4
              Dr. Kim Hammerberg, Rush Univ. Medical Center in Chicago

              Corrected to 15°
              CMT (type 2) DX in 2014, progressing
              10/2018 x-rays - spondylolisthesis at L4/L5 - Dr. DeWald is monitoring

              Click to view my pics: pics of scoli x-rays digital x-rays, and pics of me

              Comment


              • #8
                I am not nearly as athletic as you, but I think we all worry about what we're no longer going to be able to do. But the flip side of that is being able to do things (yes, differently) without pain. I worried that I couldn't bend down to leash my small terriers--but now they know to come to me in the chair for their leashes. I still can't put their bowls down to feed them (balancing dog food bowls with grabbers does not work) but I fill their water bowls with a bottle. Those are just little, everyday things but kind of an example of making life work with a recovering back. The things you want to do, you'll find a way to do. (for me, it's being in the pool.) Although I don't play golf, my husband is an avid golfer and I've often said to him what a challenge it must be to relearn that game after fusion. But if that's your passion, you'll find a way. As far as drugs, I had one day where I felt kind of chilly and flu-like and that was it. I stopped narcotics at about 4 weeks, but I think that's different for everyone and you shouldn't feel guilty if you need medication for an extended pd. of time. Your Dr.'s office should help you manage that. I don't envy you having so much time to think about this. I think I would have been driving myself crazy if I had to wait that long. Take care and enjoy each day!


                Anne in PA
                Age 58
                Diagnosed at age 14, untreated, no problem until age 50
                T4 to sacrum fusion
                63 thoracic now 35, 92 lumbar now 53
                Dr. Baron Lonner, 2/2/10
                Am pain-free, balanced, happy & an inch taller !

                Comment


                • #9
                  I totally agree with Anne - I used to worry so much about all the stuff I used to be able to do, and worried I wouldn't be able to do again. Like Anne said, it's just a matter of re-adjusting and doing things a little differently, but still being able to do them. The reason I feel I had horrible withdrawals from weaning off the meds, is because nobody really spent much time explaining to me how to take the meds when I got home, and I was given a ton of narcotics which I took like clockwork every four hours - way too much. Then I had no help with getting off the meds, so that is why I had problems. As long as your hospital/doctor explains in better detail how to take your meds, and then helps you get off the meds with hydrocodone or whatever it is that some people have had help with on here, it seems to take away all those withdrawals. I wish I'd had more help with the meds, because for me it was the worst part of this whole journey. Also don't worry about when you get off the meds, everyone is different. I was always told I have a very high pain tolerance - maybe that's why I was able to get off the meds quicker. Others have different levels of pain tolerance, so it's not a comparing thing at all, the most important thing is to feel comfortable and not in pain.
                  Lynette - 44 years old.

                  Pre-surgery thoracic 55 degrees
                  Pre-surgery lumbar 85 degrees

                  Post-surgery thoracic 19 degrees
                  Post-surgery lumbar 27 degrees

                  Surgery April 1st 2010.

                  Posterior spinal fusion from T9 to sacrum.
                  Dr. Cronen at University Community Hospital - Tampa, FL.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Karen

                    Everyone has made good points here so that really doesn’t leave me much to say other than the fact that the main thing here is adaptability.

                    While walking, if it starts to rain, that is a very annoying and uncomfortable situation, till you realize that you need to keep walking to your destination and have no choice in the matter. After you are soaked, it really doesn’t matter much anymore.....You keep on walking.

                    You will learn to adapt in your own ways and things are only hard when you don’t know. After you learn and have experience, then things are a "piece of cake"

                    Putting on socks seems impossible right after a full fusion. In the beginning, things like this can get you down, but after a while, after you adapt, these things really are easy. I don’t even use a stool anymore, and I put them on standing on one leg. Ski boots were a tough one to figure out, but now I have that figured out. I'm sure, in time you will figure out how to adapt to do the things you want to do.

                    Chris (WBS) is right about athletic people regretting surgery, "In the short term". This was something that was bothering me right after surgery, but with a strong determination, I slowly adapted and regained my ability to do the things I wanted to accomplish within my limits....

                    Ed
                    49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                    ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                    My x-rays
                    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you so much!

                      Hey, you guys are something else! You are just a special group of people (my new scoli friends) !!! You have all made such good points and my attitude from this a.m. has totally changed, thanks to your encouragement and comments that make so much sense. Thanks, again!
                      Karen

                      Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
                      Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
                      70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
                      Rib Hump-GONE!
                      Age-60 at the time of surgery
                      Now 66
                      Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
                      Retired Kdgn. Teacher

                      See photobucket link for:
                      Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
                      Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
                      tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
                      http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Karen,
                        like others said above, for me, I think not having the surgery was a bigger gamble. My curves were both alrady 66 degrees and progressing like crazy. And in my case, I felt that I knew what the future would be--I witnessed the last 15/20 years of my grandmother's life. She was all twisted up, shrunken and in pain due to her scoliosis. I didn't want to end up like her. So here I am, over a year and a half post-op, and I am very happy. Others here tell me that I will continue to improve, which amazes me because I feel so good now.

                        I was a big BIG worrier about this prior to surgery, but at some point, you just have to put your faith in your doctor's talents and believe that you will come out on the other side ok. After all, you've got one of the best surgeons.

                        What does Dr. L say about golf post-op?
                        __________________________________________
                        Debbe - 50 yrs old

                        Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
                        Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

                        Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
                        Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
                        Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

                        Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
                        Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Debbe,
                          I'm glad you are doing so well. I just got off the golf course and my friend suggested I get a second opinion about having surgery. I told her that I have one of the best scoliosis surgeons in the country and like others said, he wouldn't recommend it if he didn't think it would improve my quality of life down the road. Both of my grandmothers lived to ripe old ages (98 & 103), so I hope to also. My dad is still playing golf at 89. Yes, I'm sure you are right that it is a bigger gamble not having the surgery.
                          Dr. Lenke said I would only be able to chip and putt until about a year, so maybe I'll improve in that area. Thanks for your response. It was really encouraging!!!
                          Karen

                          Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
                          Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
                          70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
                          Rib Hump-GONE!
                          Age-60 at the time of surgery
                          Now 66
                          Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
                          Retired Kdgn. Teacher

                          See photobucket link for:
                          Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
                          Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
                          tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
                          http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by golfnut View Post
                            Dr. Lenke said I would only be able to chip and putt until about a year
                            Looks like these surgeons really need to know about all sports to be able to make specific recommendations! (Not having any idea about what chipping and putting are).

                            Or maybe he plays a mean game of golf!

                            Don't know if ALL your relatives played golf, but if so it would be a wonderful recommendation for the game. What amazing longevity stats! I wish my ahtleticism expressed itself in a game or sport...Alas, I've been a dedicated dancer and fitness buff.

                            Exercises, running, swimming, weight-lifting, gymnastics. Those are, I'm afraid, all activities I 'll have to stop completely - or at least, so much that nothing much remains. If only there were modifiable equipment I could use to adapt, but I fear no shoes could be springy enough to absorb the impact of much of anything (but the right socks and fit, will continue to matter in walking, just the same).

                            Somehow, I don't think after-surgery is a good time to take up new sports anyhow. Not ones involving appreciable bending twisting or possible risks of falling or impact. Even if I enjoyed such sports, I don't see how I could build up a skill set from scratch with so many limitations.

                            I once loved ping pong, but that's not very much movement unless you're really, really good. I'm looking for something aerobic and safe. Ideally, I"d have liked something involving music and core fitness too. Guess I can play music while I play croquet or shuffleboard Maybe Tai Chi. Suggestions?

                            Best of luck to you, Karen!
                            Last edited by Back-out; 06-03-2010, 02:04 PM.
                            Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
                            Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
                            main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
                            Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Amanda,
                              When I met with Dr. Lenke in December, he told me that he had taken golf lessons in the summer, but never had time to play, but at least he has an idea of the golf swing and what is involved with pivoting and the follow through. I definitely don't want to rush it after surgery and risk damaging anything. Golf is an awesome sport where, if you remain active, you can play for years. I'm playing in a 4-person scramble with my 83 year old mother, her 83 year old friend, and her 61 year old daughter. Last year, we placed 2nd in the same tournament against much younger teams.
                              Dr. Lenke told me that I would be able to do anything except gymnastics (which I don't do). I'm a little concerned about the high impact of my tap dancing, but my main love is golf. I may have to have the pro tweak my swing following surgery since it will have to be different. I would surely think that swimming would be allowed and probably encouraged following surgery. I'm thankful for the YMCA where I can at least use some of the equipment to get in shape. Everyone knows how active I am and I actually had this "jerk" tell me that I would gain 30-40 pounds after surgery since I wouldn't be able to do anything the rest of my life. Well, you can believe that I'm going to prove him wrong. Thanks for your reply.
                              Karen

                              Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
                              Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
                              70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
                              Rib Hump-GONE!
                              Age-60 at the time of surgery
                              Now 66
                              Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
                              Retired Kdgn. Teacher

                              See photobucket link for:
                              Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
                              Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
                              tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
                              http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X