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KaTy
10-23-2004, 05:39 PM
I was looking for something else when I found the following 2 articles about how chiropractic is viewed as treatment for scoliosis in Japan.
I decided to post it for it might be of information to some of you...

1. In June 1991, the Japanese government (the Ministry of Welfare) issued a warning on "Medical-like treatments" based on research by a special task force. It warns that chiropractic treatment is not adequate for people diagnosed as spina bifida, spondylosis, herniated discs, SCOLIOSIS and other spinal anomalies (the statement lists a variety of other spinal conditions). as the treatment may worsen the condition.
http://www.jac-chiro.org/G_B002b.htm

2. AJCA, a national chiropractors' association in Japan states in their website that people who are under the following conditions should not recieve chiropractic treatment:
People who had spine surgery, has metal implants, people with high blood pressure, with head-splitting headaches, hemiplegia, spondylosis, osteoporosis, pregnent women, young children, people who have hit their head very hard during the past few days, people who were diagnosed by a medical doctor as having other spinal anomalies, etc...
http://www.00123.net/case.html

And I assume "other spinal anomalies" includes scoliosis?

I wonder if the US or any other government or chiropractic organizations in other nations have issued such statements and/or guidelines?

Regards,
KaTy

docbono
12-29-2004, 01:22 PM
Katy

You might want to go to www.drwoggin.com and look at his scoliosis treatment.

I have done training with dr. Woggin and Dr. Lawerance and their treatment is amazing. I myself am getting consistent 10-15 degree positive changes with older patients ages 60-88 years old

Docbono

Karen Ocker
12-30-2004, 02:55 PM
Have you published any of your results in any peer reviewed journals?

LindaRacine
12-30-2004, 05:47 PM
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 2001 Jul-Aug;24(6):385-93. Related Articles, Links

Effect of chiropractic intervention on small scoliotic curves in younger subjects: a time-series cohort design.

Lantz CA, Chen J.

Life University, Marietta, GA, USA.

BACKGROUND: Chiropractors have long claimed to affect scoliotic curves, and case studies abound reporting on successful outcomes. No clinical trials exist, however, that evaluate chiropractic's effectiveness in the management of scoliotic curves. OBJECTIVE: To assess the effectiveness of chiropractic intervention in the management of adolescent idiopathic scoliosis in curves less than 20 degrees. DESIGN: Cohort time-series trial with all subjects electing chiropractic care. Entry-level Cobb angle was compared with postmanagement curve. METHODS: Forty-two subjects completed the program of chiropractic intervention. Age range at entry was 6 to 12 years, and patients were included if their entry-level x-ray films revealed curves of 6 degrees to 20 degrees. Participants had adjustments performed for 1 year before follow-up. Full-spine osseous adjustments were the major form of intervention, but heel lifts and postural and lifestyle counseling were used as well. RESULTS: There was no discernable effect on the severity of the curves as a function of age, initial curve severity, frequency of care, or attending physician. CONCLUSION: Full-spine chiropractic adjustments with heel lifts and postural and lifestyle counseling are not effective in reducing the severity of scoliotic curves.

cowprintrabbit
12-30-2004, 06:37 PM
I tried chiropractic for pain relief, and had to stop, it was making my migraines worse, and I didn't notice a difference in my back.

docbono
12-30-2004, 06:54 PM
I have not personally had any peer review articles written. Mine is only clinical data.

run asearch on the following doctors

Dennis Woggin
Gary Lawrence
Mark Morningstar

docbono

docbono
12-30-2004, 07:04 PM
lindaRacine

The article you posted is absolutely correct. Traditional full spine chiropractic adjustment will have little if no effect on scoliosis even small angles. The non-traditional form of chiropractic that I use causes the body to react to externally appliesd forces over time. This activates the righting reflex which helps realign the spinal structure with gravity. Spinal rehabiltation is applied to help the soft tissue to adapt and support the realigned structure.

Docbono

LindaRacine
12-30-2004, 07:39 PM
Bono...

Like Karen, I'll believe it when you publish it in a peer reviewed journal.

I believe that people with structural scoliosis may get some amount of temporary correction in response to various treatments, but that when treatment is discontinued, curves will return to their pre-treatment status.

--Linda

SandyC
12-31-2004, 06:19 PM
Docbono,
So which doc are you??

docbono
01-03-2005, 10:56 AM
neither!

As far as peer review a lot of effective treatment never makes it through peer review. The present treatment for scoliosis is fairly ineffective and barbaric.

Docbono

LindaRacine
01-03-2005, 11:44 AM
While bracing and surgery may be considered barbaric by a few, they are at least proven to be effective. You can find a list of published outcome studies here:

http://www.scoliosislinks.com/Outcomes.htm

I've been involved in scoliosis support for about 15 years. In all of that time, I've never seen proof of a single person who was treated by chiropractic for structural scoliosis, who got any permanent correction for their curve(s). (In fact, I've only heard RUMOR of a few people with very small curves, who got improvement.) If anyone knows of a person who started with structural curves over 30 degrees, and whose curves have been reduced by chiropractic, and can provide the patient's contact information and submit actual x-ray proof, I'd be happy to get on the bandwagon and let everyone know that chiropractic might be a good way of avoiding surgery.

--Linda

docbono
01-03-2005, 01:39 PM
This form is still in it's early stages as regards to treating scoliosis
check out the download from the Clear Institue

http://www.clear-institute.com/
Docbono

SandyC
01-03-2005, 02:37 PM
docbono

$2000.00 for a box on the floor that vibrates??? I have a pair of slippers from Wal-Mart that does the same thing for under $5.00, sure is a lot cheaper !!

docbono
01-03-2005, 02:59 PM
Did you read the research on vibratory therapy and it's effect on red and white tissue. It's better than your slippers.
Docbono

LindaRacine
01-03-2005, 03:05 PM
Perhaps when you publish your results, Sandy will publish hers.

SandyC
01-03-2005, 03:29 PM
Linda,
ROTFLOL..........:D

Sure, what kind of results do you want ?? :eek:

gedw99
05-08-2005, 10:06 PM
hi all,

Found this published by the 3 chiropractors mentioned

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2474-5-32.pdf

What are your thoughts Linda?

ged

LindaRacine
05-09-2005, 12:07 AM
Ged...

Read the comments attached to the study here:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/5/32/comments

Regards,
Linda

gedw99
05-09-2005, 08:10 AM
Linda,

Yes, i read the comments, and also the pre publication assessment by the publishing web site demanding changes to the methodology of reporting.
These are simialr to the comments you and others have requested.

i tend to agree that the study was too subjective, which is very unfortunate.

Theres not much else to say, but here are the URLS to their corporate web site.

They have a web site that provides more information, that is aimed at chiropractic practitioners, and selling the "technology".
http://www.pettibonsystem.com

in addition i also found they have a new web site aimed at patients.
http://www.spinephysicians.org/pagep247.cfm

http://www.spinephysicians.org is some chiropractic association they are a memebr of.


Regards

Ged

vestx5
05-24-2005, 03:49 PM
I have read all of the other threads but could I ask this.... I understand that chiropractor care cannot correct the spine's curve which I have supposely around a 20 s-shaped curve in the thoracic??? I had gotten xrays done when I went to a chiropractor and that's how I found out that I had scoliosis, so I haven't gotten looked at by an Orthopaedic Dr. yet and had to switch my app and it will not be until August. I am 24 and have posted on this forum before, but getting to the point of my question Will it not hurt my spine to get chiropractor care? And I would just like it b/c of my chronic back ache and now my neck is painful to turn to the left, therefore I want to make an app. to go back to the chiropractor to see if it will help with the pain in the meantime until I go see the Orthopaedic Dr. Is this Ok to do in the meantime or should I just stay away from that and wait to see the DR.???
Thanks for reading this- Nichol :)

LindaRacine
05-24-2005, 04:06 PM
Nichol...

Unfortunately, there is no study to determine one way or the other. My curves continued to increase at about 3-5 degrees a year while I was in chiropractic care, but there's no way of knowing whether the treatments actually hurt or helped that.

If adjustments help with your pain, I think you should continue to do it.

Regards,
Linda

vestx5
05-25-2005, 04:56 PM
Thanks Linda, I will keep going to the chiropractor but I only go twice a month so I don't think it will do any harm. I was just glad to hear that there is no real cause from your spine being curved worst from getting chiropractor care. Thanks again- Nichol

LindaRacine
05-27-2005, 02:04 PM
Nichol...

I want to be sure you understood my response. The fact that there are no studies could mean that there is or is not cause for concern. I'm not a medical professional, so my opinion is about as good as your own. :-)

Regards,
Linda

gerbo
06-07-2005, 05:17 AM
I've seen a chiropracter at work with my daughter and it was difficult not to either laugh out loud or walk out in anger because of the rubbish being said and done. Not only was the back "straightened" within one session, at the same session she straightened the heels, knees, pelvis and the nose (no joke) and she absolutely believed in the effectiveness of her treatment (which consisted of some superficial turning movement of the hand whilst applying light pressure,)

The worse of all was the falso hope given to my daughter and my wife through the absolute confidence of "i see what is wrong, i'll sort you out, you'll be nice and straight soon........"

just had to get rid of that.....


gerbo

LindaRacine
06-07-2005, 11:16 AM
The worse of all was the false hope given to my daughter and my wife

Hi Gerbo...

I agree. Years ago, I met a young girl whose mother had been taking her to a chiropractor for years, and was convinced that the treatment was helping. I don't know what this girl's curve was, but it was huge. She had the largest rib hump I've ever personally seen. The teen eventually had to have several surgeries.

Regards,
Linda

gerbo
06-07-2005, 11:31 AM
hope can be very seductive.....

Jinseeker
06-09-2005, 11:17 PM
I was diagnosed with an idiopathic structural scoliosis at age 15. So back in my country, i went to a chiropractor who used traditional full-spine adjustments and gave me daily exercises to do. I was cooperative with him for 5 years and nothing had he done was able to change my scoliosis. Luckily though, i was never really in any pain or discomfort. Then, i jumped on my chance to go to Canada to study. There i also met a canadian chiropractor who used a method called ABC( http://www.advbiostructuralcorr.com) on me for 2 months, i was age 21. For 2 months, i attended twice a week and got my ABC adjustments, he did nothing more on me and didn't even give me any exercises. I was re-xrayed after the 2 month period and here are my results:

sacral base angle - 48.5 to 41 degrees
upper thoracic curve (superior aspect of C7 to superior aspect of T5) 37 to 35.5 degrees
mid-thoracic curve (superior T5 to inferior L1) 52.5 - 48 degrees
lumbar curve (inferior l1 to superior S1) 30 to 28.5 degrees
cervical curve 24.5 to 36.5 degrees (normal average is 40 degrees)

Although, i didn't see much of a physical change in appearance comparing the photos of my back before and after the treatment, but in my x-rays it was obvious. If anyone wants to see my x-rays, let me know and i'll post it up.

Unfortunately, i had to go back to my country(Philippines) and since then, i haven't had any ABC adjustments. I'd like to know any of your opinions regarding this, and i hope i helped broaden your views more on chiropractic.

LindaRacine
06-10-2005, 12:04 AM
Jinseeker...

Those differences are small enough to be considered in the margin of error. One would expect to see up to 5 degrees of difference between x-rays taken in the AM and x-rays taken in the PM. Even if the differences were significant, the proof would be if you managed to keep the correction after treatment was discontinued.

--Linda

Jinseeker
06-11-2005, 12:41 AM
Linda: It wasn't an error. Here are the x-rays to prove it.

{img deleted :( )

As you can see, it is fairly obvious that it did improve. I even took the images into a paint editing program and compared it, one right on top of the other and line it up perfectly. Note, that these x-rays were taken at the exact same posture requested by my chiropractor at the exact same spot. Yes i do agree with you that it would have to live up to long-term results. But regardless, an improvement like this is worth it to keep continuing the program until a real significant change has occured.

LindaRacine
06-11-2005, 12:04 PM
Jinseeker...

There is a slight difference, but it truly could be attributed to having the x-ray taken at a different time of the day, being in pain one day and not the other, etc. It's your $, but I'd discourage anyone else reading this message to ask for a money back guarantee before embarking on such a program.

--Linda

Jinseeker
06-12-2005, 01:28 AM
Fortunately, I was never in pain when i went through with the program and before. I went through it just for maintenance and for the sake of improving the curve.