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flerc
05-03-2010, 12:18 PM
http://www.terrapinn.com/2010/stemcells/index.stm
I have read that last year was in California a World Congress of Regenerative Medicine.
I don't know if it is the same, now in London the next week. I know that last year some people exposed about other discs regeneration solutions as ozone. I supposed that now theyíll also expose about discs regeneration. I think that is the only way to reduce degrees in great curves in adults. It would be great if someone could assists.

rohrer01
05-03-2010, 12:33 PM
http://www.terrapinn.com/2010/stemcells/index.stm
I have read that last year was in California a World Congress of Regenerative Medicine.
I don't know if it is the same, now in London the next week. I know that last year some people exposed about other discs regeneration solutions as ozone. I supposed that now theyíll also expose about discs regeneration. I think that is the only way to reduce degrees in great curves in adults. It would be great if someone could assists.

I don't know a whole lot about regenerative medicine. But it is a fascinating field of Molecular Medicine, yet controversial among many becaue of stem cell use. From what I have learned so far, they are able to do some amazing things, like using some sort of protien cage and actually reconstructing whole organs. I'm not quite sure what, if any, procedures are FDA approved in the USA, but this might bring some hope to those with scoliosis from either bone deformity or disk degeneration, as you mention. It would certainly be less invasive than metal rods, but I think would be a LONG time coming. Nice topic. :)

flerc
05-03-2010, 10:24 PM
Hi roher01, I hope it will not be delayed to long. Some disk regeneration methods, as I have heard, had good outcomes in animals; I hope it will be prove soon in human beings.

Regards

LindaRacine
05-04-2010, 12:12 AM
Even if one could regenerate discs, what would one do with all those wedged vertebrae?

flerc
05-04-2010, 08:02 AM
Ever exists a great wedged vertebrae? That is my question 5) http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10151&page=3
How could I know that? Iím only sure that ever exists disk wedge.

rohrer01
05-04-2010, 09:37 PM
Even if one could regenerate discs, what would one do with all those wedged vertebrae?

Maybe VBS. This probably shows my ignorance, but it seems the discs have to be wedge shaped for scoliosis to occur. OR the vertebrae have to be wedge shaped as in congenital scoliosis.

flerc
05-05-2010, 08:29 AM
Maybe VBS. This probably shows my ignorance, but it seems the discs have to be wedge shaped for scoliosis to occur. OR the vertebrae have to be wedge shaped as in congenital scoliosis.

In idiopathic scoliosis (probably not in congenital, I donít know) always exists disc wedge. Vertebrae wedge seems to always exists too, but in a so different scale than in congenital scoliosis. I donít know how significant could it be. Clearly in a x-ray the disc wedge could be seen. If vertebrae disc would not be terrific and disc wedge improve in a significant way, then the curve should to be reduced in a significant way too. I think itís only a geometry matter. If I flex my trunk to a side Iíll have a disc wedge (not a vertebrae one), but when my trunk is straight again, that wedge disappear. Thatís not happen with scoliosis.
Satre (Fed Machine) proved that traumatic discs lead to progression (during growth) and compression lead to increment that traumatism.
It seems that if nothing is done, that compression lead to degeneration disc at least in great curves. It seems that it was impossible to regenerate it some years ago, Iím not sure if it could be done today, probably not yet.
I believe that a degenerated disc could not recover it height in the concave side.
I think that is logic to believe that is not possible to keep the discs with it normal height, if that discs could not do that by itself.
So I think that is logic to say that the only way to reduce degrees is recovering the normal discís height. At least it would be a necessary condition.
So, all conservative methods, could be useful to reduce degrees or not if its improve discís health or not, in a direct or indirect way.
The other only common factor that without any doubt exists in all idiopathic scoliosis is the collapse of the pneumatic skeleton, but it is a so different issue.

flerc
05-27-2010, 07:18 PM
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/wound-heal-0304.html

tonibunny
05-28-2010, 02:23 AM
Vertebrae wedge seems to always exists too, but in a so different scale than in congenital scoliosis. I donít know how significant could it be.

This x-ray may be of interest to people reading this thread; it's an x-ray of my spine at age 16, before I had my lumbar curve fused. Note the shape of the vertebrae at the apex of the curve. This is idiopathic scoliosis, albeit infantile idiopathic scoliosis so a very longstanding curve that I'd had since infanthood.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/3627183527_fbd5b2a3e5_o.jpg

flerc
06-04-2010, 08:40 PM
Thanks Tonibunny. It's really so interesting. A wedge could be seen in this vertebrae. An osteologist said me that only during childhood vertebras might be wedged. But of course some surgeon might said something different. Any issue about scoliosis seems to be debatable.

LindaRacine
06-04-2010, 11:08 PM
Thanks Tonibunny. It's really so interesting. A wedge could be seen in this vertebrae. An osteologist said me that only during childhood vertebras might be wedged. But of course some surgeon might said something different. Any issue about scoliosis seems to be debatable.

The osteologist is mistaken. The most common cause of vertebral wedging is degeneration.

flerc
06-04-2010, 11:29 PM
degeneration of the vertebrae or the disc?

LindaRacine
06-04-2010, 11:55 PM
degeneration of the vertebrae or the disc?

I was talking about vertebrae. Discs tend to flatten relatively uniformly.

flerc
06-05-2010, 12:42 AM
I think it's not illogic to suppose that disc degeneration might lead to vertebra wedge. If I'm not understanding wrong, degeneration on discs leads to lose her height, so the vertebral pressure increase.
I'm mistaken?

flerc
06-08-2010, 02:00 PM
A biochemical please!

http://www.inedia.com/fsvt/sulfato_glucosamina.shtml
Even the Food and Drug Administration seems to not saying nothing about this, I have read in other pages too that glucosamine can improve discs.
They also says that without sodium chloride have not effect. http://www.inedia.com/fsvt/sulfato_glucosamina2.shtml

I have read that Shark cartilage has glucosamine but I don’t know if it has sodium chloride too.

flerc
06-08-2010, 02:09 PM
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/classic/articlerender.cgi?artid=403146

flerc
06-19-2010, 07:50 PM
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WCB-45BBVYF-20&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F2001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1374823570&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7c51c4a2b82982947ea6c03396f7520d

rohrer01
06-19-2010, 09:03 PM
Interesting article about glucosaming and chondroitin. My doc wasn't really in favor of me taking it, feeling that it would be digested like any other food. If, in fact, it really does stimulate disc regeneration in mildly degenerated discs, or if there is a chance of it helping, it would be worth adding to my daily vitamins. :)

I'm wondering about a procedure that they use in race horses to help speed the healing process in wounded bones. I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I think it has something to do with poking around the injured area with hot pokers to stimulate healing. I know it sounds brutal, but it works. I wonder if the same principal could be applied to humans (under general anesthesia, of course)? Maybe Pooka1 would know something about this.

Pooka1
06-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Interesting article about glucosaming and chondroitin. My doc wasn't really in favor of me taking it, feeling that it would be digested like any other food. If, in fact, it really does stimulate disc regeneration in mildly degenerated discs, or if there is a chance of it helping, it would be worth adding to my daily vitamins. :)

Joint supplements are the hot topic in performance horses. I have much reading up to do to come up to speed but I have used injectable joint supplements with my horse. I tried a series a few years ago and there was no change so I guess that meant he didn't have any joint issues or he is immune to the effects. He recently got another injection of a different compound IIRC which might work now that he is a few years older.


I'm wondering about a procedure that they use in race horses to help speed the healing process in wounded bones. I'm not exactly sure what they do, but I think it has something to do with poking around the injured area with hot pokers to stimulate healing. I know it sounds brutal, but it works. I wonder if the same principal could be applied to humans (under general anesthesia, of course)? Maybe Pooka1 would know something about this.

You are thinking of pin-firing which, it turns out, has the main effect of forcing the owner to rest the horse. If you rest horses with similar injures and don't pinfire them they heal at the same frequency and rate.

I was recently floored to see a horse who was pinfired because I thought it was debunked years ago. I still think it is debunked but people will not give up their myths.

Pooka1
06-19-2010, 09:17 PM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2006/November/21/Pinfiring-proves-obsolete.aspx

rohrer01
06-20-2010, 09:06 PM
It's good to know that resting causes the same effect. It sounded cruel to me. :eek: Well at least I know it's not something that they would do to humans!